Obat15 - Australia

[TDR]

Firstly am I correct in assume that this is a purely Aust OOB and not a joint Aust/NZ one?

I am not sure if it’s worth making any corrections to this but there are a few points of interest.

1. The Infantry Company structures from mid 1950’s to end 1964 are out of whack with regard to official documentation. (Inf Trg Vol 4, ADF pub)

2. The armour, tanks, was supposed to have been fixed for version 2, but there are still the inaccuracies, (vers 2.5), Matildas, Grants, Churchill’s, etc.

I raise this as the changes to the Inf Coy structures would have a main impact to any existing scenario for that period.

[Mobhack]

The Australian OOb is Australian. No NZ.

The formations were all put together with help from Dallas Gavan, who is in the Aus armed forces, and who contacted other branches to get the orgs.

And there were 51 Churchills used in the Australian army, as well as Grants and Matildas used postwar. http://www.mheaust.com.au/Aust/Resea...hill/Chill.htm

Cheers
Andy

[TDR]

OK..
Firstly I did not say these tanks were not around, its a matter of termination date. Though I doubt it matters as I do not from memory ever recall any of these tanks leaving Australia.
As for the infantry srtuctures there would be some level of disagrement re sources and results eg:

Inf Coy of Inf Battalion – 1953
(source “Redcoats to Cams, A History of Australian Infantry 1788 to 2001; WO2 Ian Kuring, Australian Military History publication, 2004)

Each Coy has 3 Pls and each Pl has 3 sections

Coy HQ
. 2 Offrs, 10 ORs
. 2 x LMG
. 1 x 2” mor
. 1 x Universal carrier

Rifle Platoon x 3
Each platoon has a Pl HQ and 3 Rifle Sections as:
Pl HQ
. 1 Offr, 9 Ors
. 1 x 2” mor
. 1 x 3.5 RL
Rifle Section , 3 per platoon as:
. 10 Ors
. 1 x LMG

Inf Coy of Inf Battalion – late 1950s, (approx ‘56)
(source “Redcoats to Cams, A History of Australian Infantry 1788 to 2001; WO2 Ian Kuring, Australian Military History publication, 2004)

Each Coy has 3 Pls and each Pl has 3 sections and a Support Section

Coy HQ
. 2 Offrs, 8 ORs

Rifle Platoon x 3
Each platoon has a Pl HQ and 3 Rifle Sections and 1 Support Section as:
Pl HQ
. 1 Offr, 2 Ors
Rifle Section , 3 per platoon as:
. 9 Ors
. 1 x LMG
. 1 x SR, (Sniper Rifle)
Support Section
. 9 Ors
. 2 x 2” mor
. 1 x 3.5 RL

Inf Coy of Pentropic Inf Bn, 1960 – 1964
(source “Redcoats to Cams, A History of Australian Infantry 1788 to 2001; WO2 Ian Kuring, Australian Military History publication, 2004)

Each Coy has 4 Rifle Pls and a Weapons Pl, each Rifle Pl has 4 sections, the Weapons Pl has 1 section Mor and 1 section RL

Coy HQ
. 2 Offrs, 15 ORs
. 2 x GPMG

Rifle Platoon x 4
Each platoon has a Pl HQ and 4 Rifle Sections as:
Pl HQ
. 1 Offr, 3 ORs
Rifle Section , 4 per platoon as:
. 9 Ors
. 1 x GPMG

Weapon Pl x 1
Pl HQ
. 1 Offr, 3 ORs
Mor Sect as:
. 9 ORs
. 2 x 81mm mor
RL Sect
. 10 ORs
. 3 x 3.5 RL

As it stands with the current OOB the Pentropic structure has been left out.

[Mobhack]

Ok - will add the pentropic in that time frame (but no adjustment to the AI pick, it is not nice to try to adjust the DAT files ! - so for Humans only.

Andy

[Mobhack]

Added pentomic Inf Co
2xrifle section - (gives us the 2 LMG, if a bit over in man count)
4xpentomic rifle platoon
1xpentomic RCL section
1xMortar section

Added Pentomic rifle platoon
4xRifle Section (10 men each, roll the HQ in with that)

Added pentomic RCL sec
3xInf-AT
1xScout (makes up the 10 men)
- With the mortar section, that makes up the support platoon, and as a separate formation, you can place it in the rear without worries about C&C of the RCL det which will likely work up front of the coy.

cheers
Andy

[TDR]

OK. Thanks.

With respect to the human, are you interested in the Support Coy structure. I have this for a few years, 50's through to now, light, Mech and Motor Inf.
Inf Sp Coy Pls are not quite the same as RAA equivalents.


With the Engineer tanks, why was the Grant Dozer and Matilda Dozer left out?

With teh Flame tank you only have the Matilda Frog, yet there was the Churchill Crocodile available in the same time span. It did not vanish after WWII as they really arrived at the end of the war.

[TDR]

OK, continuing...
As I have come across several other oddities in the APC Sqn,(not Coy); the Motorised Inf, (Bushmaster Coy), the M113 Inf Coy, (Mech Inf) and several other formations.
These oddities are based on comparing the current formations in game against such docs as Manual of Land Warfare Pt 1, Aide Memoire,(Not an easy reference to find in the local library), and other similar material I have.

At present I am tied up on another project so I will get back to this later when I get more free time.

[Pats]

Question (obat15 Australia):
The Units 035 & 036 (classed as gun APCs) don't have ANY carry capacity.
Similar units (for example USA) usualy have some and it also seems logical (to me) to have some (for a M113 with scorpion/saladin turret).

Suggestion:
Give them a capacaty between 4-6 man (scouts)

[scJazz]

Googling came up with various pics of the interior of the M113A1 FSV

Best interior shot taken from rear door.

As you can clearly see the middle is naturally enough the gunners position and turret mechanics. The seats are left and right and are taken up by not surprisingly ammo. In some pictures the space closest to the door and to the right actually has a seat belt. I'm assuming it is for the loader. Doesn't look like there is any room in there for anyone extra except maybe a casualty lying on the deck close to the door.

[Pats]

Originally Posted by scJazz

Googling came up with various pics of the interior of the M113A1 FSV

Best interior shot taken from rear door.

As you can clearly see the middle is naturally enough the gunners position and turret mechanics. The seats are left and right and are taken up by not surprisingly ammo. In some pictures the space closest to the door and to the right actually has a seat belt. I'm assuming it is for the loader. Doesn't look like there is any room in there for anyone extra except maybe a casualty lying on the deck close to the door.

In this picture, if you would put in the seats near the door, at least four men could fit in - I don't say it would be comfortable but maybe possible