Problem Saving Games

[solops]

How do you save games with different names? I.e. I want to save a game at every few turns so that I can re-start it from that point if disaster strikes. This is a standard feature in all of the 80 plus games I own (or have owned), so I am sure it is here somewhere, but I cannot find it. It does not seem to be in the menus.

[Endoperez]

There isn't an in-game system for this. You can copy the game's folder from savedgames subfolder.

There's been some discussion about this feature in here lately. There was also some discussion about this when Dominions II was released. I think there also was some discussion about this when Dom:PPP was released. It's been part of the series for a long time.

[solops]

Endoperez said:
There isn't an in-game system for this. You can copy the game's folder from savedgames subfolder.

There's been some discussion about this feature in here lately. There was also some discussion about this when Dominions II was released. I think there also was some discussion about this when Dom:PPP was released. It's been part of the series for a long time.

As a newcomer to the games I can only say that I am amazed and baffled. What is there to discuss? Its a simple and straightforward feature that is pretty much a standard convenience in PC games. Adding it should be simple and would save a lot of time for players. Players that are not PC literate are pretty much left abandoned.

[PvK]

This was so sad to read. If you restore to a save whenever you lose something you didn't want to lose, then you aren't playing the game. This is a game that is not designed to require you to do that. You're supposed to live with what happens, not say, "nope! ya missed me! I'm bending reality and trying again!"

It's sad for me to read that people can play many many games for years and never encounter a well-balanced game that isn't based around the "backsies" save game abuse "feature. Bleh.

PvK

solops said:

As a newcomer to the games I can only say that I am amazed and baffled. What is there to discuss? Its a simple and straightforward feature that is pretty much a standard convenience in PC games. Adding it should be simple and would save a lot of time for players. Players that are not PC literate are pretty much left abandoned.

[Potatoman]

I think you're mischaracterizing our motives for wanting a real save/load feature.

To illustrate, put yourself in the shoes of a person who has spent the last two hours fighting to enter land as EA R'leyh. Your morale 8 troops are completely unable to breach PD anywhere on the map, so you need to rely on summons. You've taken and pillaged several smaller provinces, but Maverni his beginning to dominate the land mass and you know that once that happens, you're history. Fortunately, you've just managed to reach lvl 9 alteration and have scraped together (via alchemizing all your gems to astral) enough pearls for one casting of Wish. You need somebody big, bad, and amphibious to Thug their way through the armies of Maverni.
You've heard somewhere on the forums that Doom Horrors are the toughest unit in the game- and toughest sounds pretty good. You wish for "Doom Horror". Next turn: the sum total of all your gems are gone, your pretender is dead, horror marked, and feebleminded. Your nation has no way to heal and it'll take you roughly 100 turns to empower another person up to the level needed for another casting. The game is now over because you did not know that wishing for that particular minion will not work- an unsatisfying way to cap off two hours of gaming by any estimation.

Loading when that kind of thing happens is not "save game abuse", it's a way to avoid having to throw an otherwise entertaining session away because of a fluke, bad decision, or honest mistake.

[Mortibus]

Why does losing a game "throw an otherwise entertaining session away?"

[solops]

Potatoman said:
To illustrate, put yourself in the shoes of a person who has spent the last two hours fighting to enter land as EA R'leyh. Your morale 8 troops are completely unable to breach PD anywhere on the map, so you need to rely on summons. You've taken and pillaged several smaller provinces, but Maverni his beginning to dominate the land mass and you know that once that happens, you're history. Fortunately, you've just managed to reach lvl 9 alteration and have scraped together (via alchemizing all your gems to astral) enough pearls for one casting of Wish. You need somebody big, bad, and amphibious to Thug their way through the armies of Maverni.
You've heard somewhere on the forums that Doom Horrors are the toughest unit in the game- and toughest sounds pretty good. You wish for "Doom Horror". Next turn: the sum total of all your gems are gone, your pretender is dead, horror marked, and feebleminded. Your nation has no way to heal and it'll take you roughly 100 turns to empower another person up to the level needed for another casting. The game is now over because you did not know that wishing for that particular minion will not work- an unsatisfying way to cap off two hours of gaming by any estimation.

Not to mention simply forgetting things because of a screaming child, not recognising the itty bitty people characters for what they are or, for that matter, remembering what they are or what they do or, worst of all, playing for 4 hours, have some nutty thing happen that ends the game for you and not being able to re-play it without going back for 4 hours.

I had no idea that not having a save and reload feature (like almost all other games do) was such a critical design component. What a shame. It detracts from my enjoyment and I suspect that, if widely known, would negatively impact potential buyers, helping keep this marvelous game in a niche rather than expanding its base to a much, much wider market.

I think that it is rediculous that a request for a simple and standard UI feature should generate such a voluminous debate about the philosophy of GAME playing.

Look Mr Developer Guys, just please give us a flexible save and reload in the UI and let people choose for themselves how they will enjoy the game.

[PvK]

This IS save game abuse. This game is not balanced on the "backsies" principle, unlike other games which become pointless because they expect you to cheat until you win. If things don't go your way, live (or die) with it. Live and learn. Die, and learn faster. Otherwise, you're cheating yourself, and breaking the game balance, removing the tension, etc.

If you insist on doing this, you can. Just back up the game file and save it under a different name or under a different folder. It's fairly easy, but not so easy that players will start to rely on it and end up ruining their experience or misunderstanding the game design and thinking it's like the bazillion other games out there that are balanced on the bizarre concept that players will cheat when something goes wrong for them.

PvK

P.S. If you wish for a Doom Horror and he doesn't show up and eat your soul, consider yourself more lucky than you deserve.

Potatoman said:
I think you're mischaracterizing our motives for wanting a real save/load feature.

To illustrate, put yourself in the shoes of a person who has spent the last two hours fighting to enter land as EA R'leyh. Your morale 8 troops are completely unable to breach PD anywhere on the map, so you need to rely on summons. You've taken and pillaged several smaller provinces, but Maverni his beginning to dominate the land mass and you know that once that happens, you're history. Fortunately, you've just managed to reach lvl 9 alteration and have scraped together (via alchemizing all your gems to astral) enough pearls for one casting of Wish. You need somebody big, bad, and amphibious to Thug their way through the armies of Maverni.
You've heard somewhere on the forums that Doom Horrors are the toughest unit in the game- and toughest sounds pretty good. You wish for "Doom Horror". Next turn: the sum total of all your gems are gone, your pretender is dead, horror marked, and feebleminded. Your nation has no way to heal and it'll take you roughly 100 turns to empower another person up to the level needed for another casting. The game is now over because you did not know that wishing for that particular minion will not work- an unsatisfying way to cap off two hours of gaming by any estimation.

Loading when that kind of thing happens is not "save game abuse", it's a way to avoid having to throw an otherwise entertaining session away because of a fluke, bad decision, or honest mistake.

[solo]

Dominions does not have the save and reload option featured in most computer games.

If you need a copy of a saved game in progress use Explorer to copy the desired set of game files into a separate folder before continuing your game.

[Arralen]

solops said:
How do you save games with different names? I.e. I want to save a game at every few turns so that I can re-start it from that point if disaster strikes.

CHEATER !!!


[i]Honestly,
opening up the dominions3/savedgames/*gamename* - folder isn't that hard to do, isn't it? And you should have a ZIP-program (or another packer) installed .. just mark the *nationname*.2h, *nationname*.trn and ftherlnd file and zip them up e.g. into "turn1.zip", and the next turn into "turn2.zip" etc.
That way, you can always decompress any turn you like... . Simply reload the game afterwards.

Why it is this way, one can only speculate. At first, I would guess, the devs don't like anyone cheating around their random events ... furthermore, as Dom3 runs on Mac, Windows and Linux, a OS-independant file selection screen would be needed, which is not that easy to do, unless you use certain libraries, which where AFAIK not used for Dom3 (or 2) anywhere else.

edit: additonal text .. sry, hit the wrong button...