spob34

[brummbaer]

Hello all,
Thanks to the staff for the great work.
I just wish to correct some language mistakes in the italian oob.

Unit:
113-222-223-224-762-763-764 SM.82 Canguru -> Canguro;
155 Ingegnere CCNN -> Genieri CCNN;
209-210-211-212 Br.20M Cigogna -> Cicogna;
267 ParaCacciacarra -> ParàCacciacarri;
165-166-167 Bicicletta means just bicicle, you may want name it Fanteria ciclista (bike infantry);
277-280 Ricerca MC -> Fanteria motociclista (Motorbike inf) or Esploratori (espl) motociclisti (Motorbike recon) as you prefer;
285-286-287-288 Fortificata Casa -> Casa fortificata;
295 Art Marittima -> Art Costiera;
345 Fiamme Verde -> Fiamme Verdi;
381 Spelonca alpino -> Grotta fortificata (fortified cave in rocky hills);
455 Maro Ingegnere -> Marò Genieri;
510-511 delete "di"
520 Caccia DD should have 127mm;
521 Incrociatore CL should have 152mm;
522 Incrociatore CA should have 203mm;
523 Corazzata V BB should have 381mm, avalable from 5/40 onward;
524 Corazzata BB (305mm) available till 1/1937;
525 Corazzata BB (should be 320mm)available from 6/1937 onward;
550 Arditi Tiratore -> Ardito Tiratore;
675-676-740-741 expl. -> espl.
690 Ingegnere -> Genieri
449-450-452-453-455-456-458-459-792-793-810-811-812 Maro-> Marò

[DRG]

brummbaer said:
165-166-167 Bicicletta means just bicicle, you may want name it Fanteria ciclista (bike infantry);
277-280 Ricerca MC -> Fanteria motociclista (Motorbike inf) or Esploratori (espl) motociclisti (Motorbike recon) as you prefer;
285-286-287-288 Fortificata Casa -> Casa fortificata;
295 Art Marittima -> Art Costiera;
345 Fiamme Verde -> Fiamme Verdi;
381 Spelonca alpino -> Grotta fortificata (fortified cave in rocky hills);
455 Maro Ingegnere -> Marò Genieri;
510-511 delete "di"
520 Caccia DD should have 127mm;
521 Incrociatore CL should have 152mm;
522 Incrociatore CA should have 203mm;
523 Corazzata V BB should have 381mm, avalable from 5/40 onward;
524 Corazzata BB (305mm) available till 1/1937;
525 Corazzata BB (should be 320mm)available from 6/1937 onward;
550 Arditi Tiratore -> Ardito Tiratore;
675-676-740-741 expl. -> espl.
690 Ingegnere -> Genieri
449-450-452-453-455-456-458-459-792-793-810-811-812 Maro-> Marò

Thanks for the "corrections" but in the case of "Marò" for example, surely you must have noticed by now that the game only uses a standard, NON-inflected alphabet ? There are no Umlauts etc used in the German OOB on any other OOB for the same reason. Those letter characters do not exist in the games alphabet and if used will cause the game to crash.

As well, there are name length limitations so "Fanteria motociclista" simple will not fit into the space available for names in the game nor will "Fanteria ciclista" which is why terms like " Bicicletta" and "Ricerca MC" are used instead. The same issue applies to Spelonca alpino -> Grotta fortificata. What you think is correct simply will not fit.



Don

[brummbaer]

I wrote the whole names to let you cut them short as you see fit. I didn't see the accented characters issue though, so I stand corrected, but don't be so sharp.

[DRG]

Some things just do not stand up well to being shortened especially when dealing with different languages. Yes, "Bicicletta" could be "Fant.Ciclista" ( that contraction will actually fit ) but it's been "Bicicletta" for years without complaint and we've had Italian speaking playtesters. Art Marittima -> Art Costiera; "Marine artillery" vs Costal artillery. Yes, I suppose that's somewhat more accurate. Ricerca MC could be just "Motociclisti" but the original term has been in the OOB for years as well and was intended to represent it's scouting function I could use "Espl. MC" but really.....which is "more correct" ???

[brummbaer]

You already include "Art Costiera" (unit 336-337) so you just have two names for the same thing, though unit 295 is an AAMG emplacement. As for the bicicletta etc, sure it isn't an issue to the game in itself, just for the taste of it: what would you see better, moving a bycicle or a bike squad? Nothing more than this. I don't know how much of an issue it is for you to change that, you see if it's worth.

[Marek_Tucan]

Well, it's mostly a tiring and boring work after which someone will for sure come and ask why unit xxx is called yyy when in last version it was zzz

[DRG]

Change the ammo load to 20 HE/ 30 AP. Problem solved. Now corrected in the master

If you find any further informaton on this weapon please let us know .


Don

[Arralen]

I'm not entirely sure which gun this is supposed to be ... I don't have any literature, so I have to rely on what I find on the net:

I found mentioned

- Breda 75/46, Main armament of the Semovente M43 da 75/46, a German variant combining confiscated Italian guns und vehicles. ... The 75/46 M.34 appears to have been based on an obsolete anti-aircraft gun of WW1 vintage, possibly the French 75 mm Puteaux anti-aircraft gun.
and
fireandfury.com - Semovente M43 da 75/46

- Ansaldo 75/46 Ultime réalisation de l'ingénieur Giuseppe Rosini, le semovente da 75/46 était une évolution du semovente da 105/25, basé sur le même châssis M43. Les différences principales entre les deux blindés étaient la substitution du canon de 105/25 par celui de 75/46, particulièrement adapté pour le tir antichar, et l'ajout d'un blindage supplémentaire sur la partie frontale de la casemate dont l'épaisseur variait de 70 �* 100 mm.
Note also the link to http://www.italie1935-45.com/RE/phot...none75-46.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannone....A._modello_34

My french is non-existant, but I think those 2 sources a slightly contradicting.

Judging from the pics on that french website, the unit/equipment list on http://www.comandosupremo.com/forum/...hp?f=20&t=2527, which lists
ANTI-AIRCRAFT
20mm L/65 + Ford or Spa
37mm L/54 + ?
75mm L/46 + ?
...

and
Comando Supremo: GGFF (Giovani Fascisti) 1941-1943, which lists
136th INFANTRY DIVISION GGFF - Giovani Fascisti (Mareth Line 15 March 1943)
48th AA/ATk ARTILLERY BATTALION (Italian 75/46 AA Guns)

I would say that
- the Ansaldo AA gun was used in dual role
- it may, or may not have been used mounted on trucks
- it may, or may not have been used in a SVM

Great

I would guess in fact that the gun on the truck was the Ansaldo 75/46, considering the fact that the german 8.8 must have been of similar size, and was screwed onto everything that could drive ... .
From the pics provided, it seems to me that the SVM is not of sufficient size to house the big AA gun without extensive redesign - doesn't matter that much, as only 11 seems to have been produced. Btw., the successor, the 90/53 gun was mounted on a tank chassis (Semovente 90/53) and was so big that half of the crew had to stand behind the TD in combat.

[Arralen]

Addendum:

Could be that Unit 425 Ansaldo 75mm and Unit 423 3RO 75L46 are meant to be using the same gun?!

Though italian measurement of calibre length was somewhat different from the usual (allied) one, at least according to some sources, and in general, shorter, I doubt that the 75L46 could be the heavy 75mm Ansaldo AA/AT gun rated as L60 by the allies. But then, I wasn't able to find anything 'bout a 75/L60 AA gun, but lots of pointers to the 75/L46 AA gun?! It is somewhat suspicious, that both seem to use the Mod.34 designation ?!?!


PS: One may want to ask the folks at juniorgeneral.org what are their source for these pics ...

[DRG]

It's a 75/46-mm AA gun (Model 34) mounted on a truck

http://www.lonesentry.com/manuals/ar...ppendix-d.html
75/46-mm AA gun (Model 34) Caliber (inches)2.97 Muzzle velocity (foot-seconds) 2,350 Max range (yards) 14,100 /27,200 ft Remarks "Mobile gun "

Somebody long ago decided either this or other information warranted it's inclusion. It's sat in dusty obscurity until you bought up the issue of AP ammo. It will have AP ammo in the next patch release

Don