The fatal flaws of scripting mages...

Meglobob · #1 April 25th, 2007, 06:23 AM

Currently playing in a game where R'lyeh Mind Lords & Aboleths are teleporting into my Atlantian provinces, scripted with, Body Etheral, Personal Luck, Quicken Self, Astral Shield, Breath of Winter, Attack Closet.

With this a single Aboleth or Mind Lord can defeat 25 - 30 Atlantian PD, 9 times out of ten.

Okay, fair enough, so I send out a few mages to boost the PD a little and hopefully kill a few more of the MInd Lords & Aboleths. I equip a lvl 5 water mage with 3W gems and script Summon Water, Winter Ward, Water Ward, Friendly Currents, Water Strike, cast spells.

My mage absolutely refuses to follow his script, resulting in the battle being lost. Obviously the AI is classing the single Mind Lord/Aboleth as no threat, when of course it is.

Isn't this a clear case of scripting being fatally flawed?

I believe in the future perhaps Dom 4, you should have a option of switching the AI scripting off/on. So when off it follows your spell script exactly, when on works as it presently does.

I know this as been discussed many times, but as its so annoying I thought it deserved a rehash...grrrrr....gives all the new players a chance to growl at the AI scripting as well.

Nick_K · #2 April 25th, 2007, 06:56 AM

The other side of the coin here, is that if you selected 'AI scripting off' for a big army, the enemy could drop 'call of the winds' on you and your mages would waste tons of gems. Then if the army is attacked in the same turn, it might be left vulnerable - I believe that's what used to happen in Doms2.

Meglobob · #3 April 25th, 2007, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Nick_K said:
The other side of the coin here, is that if you selected 'AI scripting off' for a big army, the enemy could drop 'call of the winds' on you and your mages would waste tons of gems. Then if the army is attacked in the same turn, it might be left vulnerable - I believe that's what used to happen in Doms2.

At least you would have a choice by being able to switch it on or off and the enemy would not know wether it was on or off.

Dedas · #4 April 25th, 2007, 09:03 AM

That seems like a nice choice to have. And with the possibility that you might screw up I think it just adds to the game.

Gandalf Parker · #5 April 25th, 2007, 11:58 AM

It sounds like a good idea but I dont know if Kristoffer would go for it.

"Your god tells you to do xxxx, xxxxx, xxxxx, xxxxx, xxxxx but in battle you decide to do it abit differently"
makes more sense thematically than
"Your god tells you to do absolutely nothing in combat"

You could make a stronger case for
"Your god tells you to do xxxx, xxxxx, xxxxx, xxxxx, xxxxx and even though it seems stupid during the battle you do it anyway because you are more afraid of angering your god than the idea of dying".

Actually, the strongest case of all would be to examine the game log and see where you feel the logic failed. The mage goes thru a huge list of spells rating them. Maybe the rating could be tweaked in a way that will work (for all nations)

Sombre · #6 April 25th, 2007, 12:19 PM

Why does it have to be god telling them what to do? Why can't the scripting just represent the mage deciding something?

This is a gameplay deal, not much to do with 'realism' or 'thematics'.

thejeff · #7 April 25th, 2007, 12:21 PM

And what does it mean to follow the script exactly. Should the mage cast attack spells with nothing in range? Blessings when everyone is already blessed (or no sacred units present)? Mind duel with no enemy astral mages? Etc, etc.

Better (though more developer work) would be to improve the "Is this enemy force worth wasting gems on?" logic. That seems to be where most of the problems lie.

alexti · #8 April 26th, 2007, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Gandalf Parker said:
It sounds like a good idea but I dont know if Kristoffer would go for it.

"Your god tells you to do xxxx, xxxxx, xxxxx, xxxxx, xxxxx but in battle you decide to do it abit differently"
makes more sense thematically than
"Your god tells you to do absolutely nothing in combat"

You could make a stronger case for
"Your god tells you to do xxxx, xxxxx, xxxxx, xxxxx, xxxxx and even though it seems stupid during the battle you do it anyway because you are more afraid of angering your god than the idea of dying".

Maybe it should be tied to the dominion? So for example, if Dominion is 1 the mage would think "Ok, maybe the god exists, but what he knows about the combat? I'm not spending gems on that Rain of Stones he has divined to cast - our Tartarian army should take care of that lone hawk". With dominion 10 it would be different story: "That lone hawk doesn't seem to be too dangerous to us, but what do I, mere mortal, know - God must have his divine plans - Rain of Stones it is!"

alexti · #9 April 26th, 2007, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Nick_K said:
The other side of the coin here, is that if you selected 'AI scripting off' for a big army, the enemy could drop 'call of the winds' on you and your mages would waste tons of gems. Then if the army is attacked in the same turn, it might be left vulnerable - I believe that's what used to happen in Doms2.

Dom3 behaviour is rather sensible (in most cases). But strangely, I think now that I liked Dom2 system more. In Dom2, finding a good script was a real challenge. When you knew that when you storm the fortress you have to fend off magic attack first, then attempt to break the siege and only after you would be storming, it was an interesting task of managing to get the critical spells cast in the final battle and it led to many very interesting methods of gem preservation

Meglobob · #10 April 30th, 2007, 10:04 AM

Scripting is driving me mad at the moment, I scripted attack one turn, this was to get in range of the incoming Aboleths/Mind Lords. So my mage casts fire shield...surely it should obey the attack one turn order without question?

Btw the mage died as a result of disobeying my script...ahh that will teach him!