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  #1  
Old June 27th, 2007, 03:54 AM
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MarkSheppard MarkSheppard is offline
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Default Melilla - Spanish Enclave in Morocco

Working on this map for a scenario:


So far in SPCAMO. There are some uh, limitations. I'm trying to render it as best as I can.


Real life image.

This is going to be a big, 70 x 130 hex map. Big enough that you can run around and blow stuff up in, or stage multi pronged attacks; like an amphibious assault on the beaches, or a helo borne/paraborne insertion at the airport...

BTW, the hedgerow surround it is intended to represent the wall they have surrounding the city, to keep out illegal immigrants, since Melilla is one of the points of entry into the EU from Africa....
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  #2  
Old June 27th, 2007, 10:06 AM
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Default Re: Melilla - Spanish Enclave in Morocco

Sounds interesting for plenty of scenarios, just too bad there isn't a Morrocan OOB.
How are you doing about the relief? Looks like there is a lot of vertical shoreline involved... maybe with higher elevation and impassable terrain?

By the way, how about modeling the fence with a berm (elevated ground) and optional barb wire?

Looks like great work for now anyway! Good luck for the rest of it!
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Old June 27th, 2007, 12:33 PM

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Default Re: Melilla - Spanish Enclave in Morocco

I've always wanted a scenario with Melilla or Ceuta... I am looking forward to this.
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  #4  
Old June 27th, 2007, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: Melilla - Spanish Enclave in Morocco

The Moroccoan OBAT for '05:

3 x Eurocopter Panther
32 x F-5 Tiger II
35 x F-5 Freedom Fighter
52 x Mirage F1s
18 x Rafales
6 x OV-10s

9K11 Malutka/AT-3 Sagger (Anti-tank guided missile launcher) 100
AML (Reconnaissance Vehicle) 230
AMX-10RC (Reconnaissance Vehicle) 108
AMX-13 (Light tank) 54
BRDM-2 (Reconnaissance Vehicle) 50
Dragon (Anti-tank guided missile launcher) 50
ERC Sagaie (Reconnaissance Vehicle) 20
F3 (Self-propelled howitzer) 80
FH70 (Towed howitzer) 30
HOT (Anti-tank guided missile launcher) 20
L118 (Towed gun) 36
M-114 (Towed howitzer) 22
M101 (Howitzer) 18
M109A1 (Self-propelled howitzer) 40
M110A2 (Self-propelled howitzer) 60
M113A3 (Tracked armoured personnel carrier) 440
M3 (Wheeled armoured personnel carrier) 50
M46 (Towed howitzer) 18
M48 (Main battle tank) 224
M60 (Main battle tank) 60
M60A3 (Modernization of the vehicle) 240
Milan (Anti-tank guided missile launcher) 10
OT-62 (SCOT) (Tracked armoured personnel carrier) 10
OT-64 (Wheeled armoured personnel carrier) 50
RAM (Reconnaissance Vehicle) 5
Ratel (Wheeled armoured personnel carrier) 80
SK 105 Kurassier (Light tank) 120
T-72 (Main battle tank) 48
The Eland (Reconnaissance Vehicle) 5
TOW BGM-71 (Anti-tank guided missile launcher) 50
UR-416 M (Wheeled armoured personnel carrier) 55
VAB (Wheeled armoured personnel carrier) 394
VAM TL (Armoured car) 100
ZU-23 (2A13) (Anti-aircraft machine gun) 160
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Old June 28th, 2007, 12:46 AM

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Default Re: Melilla - Spanish Enclave in Morocco

Correction: OT-62 is TOPAS, OT-64 is SKOT (no "C" )
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Old June 28th, 2007, 08:27 AM
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Default Re: Melilla - Spanish Enclave in Morocco

I see you studied you subject

But according to Morrocan sources the ArmyGuide list has some discrepancies.

Some corrections for your materials from the World Military Balance 2005 and various Moroccan internet sources (numbers are irrelevant except for relative rarity):

-AS-565 Panther are only Navy service (as often), while the Air Force uses 2 squadrons of SA-342 Gazelle with either 20mm autocannon or HOT ATGM (see French versions), about 30 each of SA-330 Puma and AB-205A, 20 AB-206 Scout and 7 CH-47C.

-Only a squadron's worth of f-5A/Bs remain in service, probably not for long.

-The Mirage F1s are bound to remain in service for some time. A modernisation program including AASM guided bombs (probably the 250kg version with 10m-radius GPS guidance) but take that with a grain of salt for now.

-The Rafales are still unconfirmed, a rumor about an order spread last summer after a Rafale showcase at a Moroccan airshow but Dassault denied a contract had been validated. Now it sounds like the deal is up again but don't expect deliveries before 2008-09.

-The OV-10s have been rumored to be on their way out for a couple of years, but I don't know what's supposed to replace them in COIN strike, except for non-existent combat choppers or the more fragile Alphajets.
Recon role is taken up by SkyEye RPVs and possibly French surplus CL-289s.

-Just FYI, Moroccan planes should use all kinds of dumb bombs, 68 and 128mm Matra (Mirages and Alphajets) and 70mm Hydra rockets (F-5s and Broncos), plus Rockeye clusters and the odd AGM-65B Maverick on the F-5s. I think you can assume Beluga clusters on the Mirages at this point in time, but that's a wild guess on my part.


-AMLs are mostly 90mm cannon (190 out of the total)

-No source for the AMX-13s, so probably old mothballed stocks replaced by the SK-105s.

-BRDM-2s could be mothballed already, also count some SP-Malutkas in the lot AFAIK

-The WMB talks about 440 Dragons, so is that 50 launchers for 440 missiles or the complete order?

-I have found nothing about ERC-90s either, though there are a few (12-20) old EBR-75s in mothballs somewhere.

-HOT is probably jeep-mounted only (ATLAS launcher, Morocco being the only customer), could be dismounted. Possibly on the decline for some years already, being replaced by new TOW versions.

-Light arty also apparently relies on 36 old M-1950 105mm, whatever these are supposed to be. Also don't forget a handful of old French Mk-61 105mm SP.

-The M109A1 are apparently about to be completed by several dozens surplus M-109A3s, probably from Belgium. No confirmation. Also there are about 20 old 155mm M-44s lying around.

-M-48s have been M-48A5s for a long time already, and should be mostly in store by now.

-M-60s: WMB says 300*M-60A1 + 120*M-60A3, I don't know if anyone still carries out the modernization. Not really relevant in your case anyway. Some A3 have the TTS sight and some have some kind of Blazer-like ERA pack

-Both OT-62s and OT-64s have probably been retired or nearly so for long, at least since the Ratels were delivered.

-Ratels should be half-half 20mm autocannon and 90mm AML turret.

-T-72 quantities should near 150 in several batches. AFAIK model should be T-72B (Belarus surplus), several with 1st-generation ERA and possibly with Svir missiles.
Apparently they have been gathered in a "Russian" elite brigade, away from the Sahraoui ffront in strategical reserve, which is rumored to get BMP-3s and BTR-90s in the future. Now they seem to be running alongside VABs.

-TOW includes some 80 M-901 SP launchers, more on jeeps, Hummers and M-150 pintle mounts. Possibly on Gazelles as well to replace the HOT. Versions include basic BGM-71B and ITOW, possibly TOW-2. TOW-2A may be on the order board to counter Algerian T-90s.

-UR-416s appear to be paramilitary (Gendarmerie Royale) only

-VABs mostly 6x6 (no matter), versions include MG APC (mainly), some 45 cannon IFVs (probably French 20mm turret), RASIT GSR confirmed, apparently no ATGM launcher.

-VAM-TLs come at least in armored ambulance version and are to be completed by a large order (120 or 1200?) of VAMTACs, in several versions including armored and unarmored recon, reportedly HMG, MMG, AGL, TOW, M40 RLR and Mistral.
They are rumored to serve mainly as recon/weapon vehicles in replacement of the old Hummers while the VAM-TLs would be mostly utility vehicles.

-Did you also count the Hummers? About 5500-6000 M-998 were delivered around 2000, some were old 80s US surplus, so they aren't much used on the Sahraoui front, where they are replaced by Land Cruisers. But that's not the point here either; remains to be known which versions are used: MG recon and TOW are for sure, I've seen just once a ZPU-2 mount on an open-top Hummer, not sure if there's much use in this.

-ZU-23s are completed by 200*ZPU-2, 20*ZPU-4 (probably nearing retirement), 40*M-167 Vulcan (+ 60*M-163), a small number of ZSU-23/4, 37*Chapparals and 14 old KS-19 flaks. A dozen of 2S6M Tunguskas are reportedly on order to replace the ZSUs, some have been delivered as soon as 2005. HAWK SAMs are a persistant rumor, reportedly from US, Spanish, French or Saudi surplus, but no confirmation as AAD is a very sensitive subject in Moroccan forces theses days.

Edit: Apparently forgot to mention the Akrep scout cars (from Otokar in Turkey), recent (early 2000s) acquisition of unknown quantities, and 10 poor lonely AMX-10P IFVs, probably not much use in those anymore.

Now for some small arms: the standard is apparently still the old AK-47/AKM from Hassan-II's Soviet days, though there should be some AUGs here and there.
Standard LMG/MMG is apparently the old Mag, but since pre-Soviet equipment was apparently of the Brit/US persuasion, it may have been replace since then.
Standard AT weapon still the old M-72 LAW, possibly 80s-90s US FMS/surplus. Some old Super Bazookas still hanging around, and a swarm of ATGMs, from the ENTAC and Cobra (probably scrapped/exhausted) to reported Metis-M and Kornet.


Sorry if I'm sounding patronizing, I just want you to make the best of your map
I have already spent some time documenting on the Moroccan army (plus about the same amount just today...), and I have the advantage of access to French-speaking sources. Anyway the FAR are of the paranoid-secretive-authoritarian type, so official or leaked info is a rare thing.

Anyway, my question was more about which base OOB you were going to use to feature the Moroccan forces in the game?
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  #7  
Old June 29th, 2007, 07:25 PM

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Default Re: Melilla - Spanish Enclave in Morocco

Hi PK,

looks like you got some good sources there... anything open-source which is compact and readily available?

And to Mark: Looks promising!

Cheers,

Shan
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