British OOB / 25pdr AT gun

Shan · #1 December 20th, 2007, 08:17 AM

I am trying to play the Brits for the first time, in North Africa '41... quite tough if you are used to playing Germans or at least Russians with some real decent weapons...

Anyways - the only weapon to easily kill German tanks at the time, the 25pdr., of which I bought both arty + AT versions, doesn't work properly - they got this Sabot loadout, alright, but seem to fire only HE at German tanks!
They are correctly classes as heavy AT guns + as howitzers - this works fine with other nation's guns of the type to I wonder what's wrong with the Brits? Is it probably because those guns dont know that SABOT is for hard targets' Other arty usually has HEAT or AP for emergency use against tanks... but then, the AT guns you find usually got HE, AP and a few SABOT as well and I never had a German Pak fire HE at a tank unless they ran out of all other ammo! I also thought it might be because some tanks carry tank-riding infantry - but then I fired at tanks where I made sure no inf is carried... same result... by now I got a crowd of some 20 PzIII pinned under heavy HE fire but if I can't teach my gunners then I'll die...
I am now half-way through a battle and have almost used up my HE rounds, I hope then they will finally bother to use the SABOTs if they're still alive...

I'm sure others must've notices this problem as well...

Possible solution: if the SABOT ammo is the root of ther problem - change the SABOT to AP, with according characteristics of the weapon changed as well - should work that way, right?

PatG · #2 December 20th, 2007, 10:46 AM

What ranges were you firing at? Sabot performance drops off rapidly with range. If you were shooting at distant tanks, HE might well have been the better option.

Shan · #3 December 20th, 2007, 11:16 AM

I guess must've been around 1000m - I'll check when I reload the savegame at home. Waould be good to know the range limits before opening fire though. I know about these performance drops in RL but I didnt realize that the game also models them - well if that is the case and the ammo of the 25pounder represents RL correctly which I would assume, then I'm fine with it. You just don't get anywhere near the performance of an '88 - that's clear---

DRG · #4 December 20th, 2007, 11:33 AM

Quote:

PatG said:
What ranges were you firing at? Sabot performance drops off rapidly with range. If you were shooting at distant tanks, HE might well have been the better option.

That is correct. The rounds are picked by the game based on which one has a better chance of doing damage and "damage" could mean hoping for a disablement rather than an outright kill.

In some cases that means weapons like 25 pounders fire will HE at armoured targets because the HE has a better chance of doing something worthwhile at that range. Under 1100 yards the 25 pdr in the AT role will fire Sabot at armoured targets. It's a simple test to set up in the editor.

Don

Shan · #5 December 20th, 2007, 03:04 PM

Thanks for the reply, meanwhile I tested it and found it's exactly as you're saying. Doesn't really make me happier with that weapon but anyways... the British OOB requires different tactics...

CharlesM · #6 June 20th, 2008, 02:58 PM

What in God's name is the 25 pdr doing with sabot ammunition anyway? It fired a plain steel AP shot designed for self-protection, and although an HEAT round was developed it nevere saw service. Each gun had 8 AP rounds, The Bishop had 11 AP rounds, and the Sexton 18. Reports from France in 1940 indicated that to be really effective the 18/25 pdrs there had to withhold fire until the German tanks got to 600 yards.

Marek_Tucan · #7 June 20th, 2008, 04:29 PM

That's precisely why it uses Sabot ammo in-game as this allows the AP round to have shorter range than HE

chuckfourth · #8 June 20th, 2008, 06:50 PM

Hi Charles
The game uses the Sabot ammubition -type- to model poor performance ap shell of varios types, see the short french 37mm gun in H-35 or R-35 as another example.

CharlesM · #9 June 22nd, 2008, 11:55 AM

Thanks - that explains it.

Mobhack · #10 December 20th, 2007, 03:05 PM

Why not look at the gun's data?. It is available right there in the info screens for you to read, after all. See the Game Guide, "Encyclopaedia screen" link, in the second page of info's description, where it describes the values. (The unit info screen uses the same layout as the Encyclopaedia).

It uses the sabot round for its AP round. Sabot max range is 24 hexes, so it will fire shot to about 24 hexes, or 1200 metres. Naturally, as penetration falls with range, at the far end the penetration may be too low to make the shot worthwhile, and the game is set up to use HE (if available) in that case (It may get a track disabling hit).

Cheers
Andy