Why do people hate on Ulm?

[moderation]

I'm rather curious that Ulm seems to have a funny reputation, but I don't understand exactly why.

[DonCorazon]

Well, having played MA Ulm in my first MP game I can tell you - I took a commanding lead and built some impressive armies. Then my opponents start developing spells like Darkness, Arrow Fend, Flaming Arrows, etc. My mighty armies quickly became targets for high level evocation spells. My own magic was so predictable - Blade Wind, Destruction repeat...that my enemies knew exactly what to expect. Needless to say, the fall of Ulm was almost as fast as its rise.

I will always have a place in my heart for the stalwart Ulmites, but won't be eager to try them again in MP.

[Evil Dave]

DonCorazon said:
Well, having played MA Ulm in my first MP game I can tell you - I took a commanding lead and built some impressive armies. Then my opponents start developing spells like Darkness, Arrow Fend, Flaming Arrows, etc. My mighty armies quickly became targets for high level evocation spells.

Yup++. Way back when the earth was young and I'd just picked up Dom2, people recommended Ulm because it was easy to learn. I had the frustrating experience of being smashed in the same way: gee, look at all the stuff my "easy" nation can't do! I was hopeful Dom3 would fix Ulm (now MA Ulm), but I was disappointed w/ it.

I do like EA Ulm, tho.

[moderation]

Heh, thanks everyone for the informative and amusing input. What is it about Ulm that makes it a good "newbie nation." Is it the limited options, or maybe the reduced amount of micromanagement needed?

[Dedas]

MA Ulm is definitely not a newbie nation in the sense that it takes considerably experience and skill to succeed with it (in MP).

[moderation]

Perhaps I should have said "a nation that newbies like, even if they are not successful with."

Why anyone would like a nation they can't succeed with still confuses me a bit, but I assume not everyone who uses Ulm is a newbie.

[DonCorazon]

Not only that, playing MA Ulm left me feeling like the 18 year old stuck in 7th grade - that is to say everyone else was learning lots of good stuff to help them in the future whereas I was hopelessly stuck. They got to experiment with different magic research paths, interesting summons, artifacts, etc. whereas I (who took a really lame pretender as well: a 4e1w cyclops - its almost comical - i meant to take 1a so i could get gargoyles but somehow confused the air and water icon...) just looked at what i could get for 3e or less. and even 3e required earth boots. So I didn't learn much other than Ulm is not a Noob nation at all. The only easy thing about Ulm is that it is easy to convince everyone your not a threat...

[B0rsuk]

moderation said:
Heh, thanks everyone for the informative and amusing input. hat is it about Ulm that makes it a good "newbie nation." Is it the limited options, or maybe the reduced amount of micromanagement needed?

Both.

Ulm is a magic-hating nation in a game with 600+ spells.
Their description sounds as if they'd make a good rush nation... but they don't. And past early game, their weaknesses become even more exposed. Which brings me to another point: it's very, very hard to balance something like Ulm. Without strong magic, they can't possibly have strong endgame. If you just buff their units, you just make them into a rush nation, and do nothing to adress their mid-late weakness.

Items are just not as important or versatile as spells. Magic items can be divided into few categories:
thug/SC equipment
magic boosters

ranged weapons (situational, and not very effective)
everything else.

Magic boosters and thugs/SC's win games. Ulm has little magic to boost, and no efficient thug/SC chasis. This leaves ranged weapons and various misc items. Not something you can build a strategy around. You could find some very specific good items, but depending on few such items makes you much more predictable (=vulnerable) than strong combat magic or SC's.
There are basically no magic items for boosting armies. I think this is a big deal for Ulm, which thematically should depend on steel. Only army-boosting items I can think of boost morale and increase leadership. Oh, and there's the staff of storms. They do nothing about resistances, darkness (no items to counter darkness ? WTF ?), toughness, damage potential. To boost regular armies, you have to rely on combat magic.

Suggestion to any Kristoffers who might be reading this post: Ulm would really like some national forgable items that boost regular armies in various ways, most notably resistances. This would make regular Ulm units better without making them a primitive rush nation.

I've seen an argument that Black Lords can make cost-effective thugs due to their low cost and Ulm's magic item discount. Using 4 black lords instead of 1 'regular' thug etc. This is totally backwards thinking. If you need 4 equipped black lords just to break even, Ulm's forge bonus is basically worthless (for black lords) because it's not an advantage. Another way of saying it is that Black Lords suck so much you need 25% forge bonus to break even with them.

[capnq]

Evil Dave said: Way back when the earth was young and I'd just picked up Dom2, people recommended Ulm because it was easy to learn.

That recommendation always baffled me, as did the people who suggested starting with one of the underwater nations. Maybe they were talking about a good nation to learn the UI with, rather than strategy and tactics.

[llamabeast]

Kamamura is having an unlucky day on the forum (someone went crazy at him on a newbie game thread as well - not your fault Kamamura!)

capnq - people recommend starting with underwater nations?! Wow, that is insane. Way to put someone off.