Command Control

[RightDeve]

Hi,
I have another little question here. I have a platoon and it is under command of a Company HQ. All the squads inside the platoon don't have radio to contact the Company HQ. My question, who can rally this platoon then? I keep the distance of each squad no more than 4 hexes.

The second question, if any of the squad in the platoon has the radio, but not the platoon commander/"0", then, can I be able to contact the Company HQ and get rallied?

Thanks!

[Mobhack]

1) Without radio contact the platoon commander can rally any section of his platoon, if within about 5 hexes (no LOS), about 10 (500m) if the element is in LOS.

2) The company commander can do the same for any elements in his company to the same ranges, if without radio contact.

3) The Battle Group commander can also rally any subordinates without radio contact to the same distances and circumstances.

4) Contact is determined at the start of your phase. ordinary elements are determined for their platoon leader, leaders for the next formation level up.

NB - sometimes (and rarely) contact is allowed beyond 10 hexes with no LOS or radio link. Assume someone sent a runner/liaison officer to find them.

Cheers
Andy

[Felix Nephthys]

I know this is an old topic but I thought I could clarify some things as it pertains to rallying and being in/out of contact. I can illustrate this using the WINSPMBT scenario 41- Viet Village as an example (I know it's not WINSPWW2 but the subject pertains to both games). In that scenario the command structure is as follows.

A0- Battalion Commander

B0- Company Commander (commanded by A0)
B1
B2

C0- Platoon Commander (commanded by B0)
C1
C2
C3

D0- Platoon Commander (commanded by B0)
D1
D2
D3

E0- Platoon Commander (commanded by B0)
E1
E2
E3





Now say units B0, B1, E0, E1, and A0 advance on the enemy. Units B1 and E1 come under fire and are suppressed. (see pic below)


Note that unit A0 is just to the right of unit B0.

Now if we wish to rally unit E1 then note that units E0, B0, and A0 are well within range. The only units to be able to give an extra rally attempt to unit E1 would be his platoon commander, unit E0, and his company commander, unit B0. Unit A0 will not be able to provide an extra rally attempt to unit E1, nor would unit A0 be able to provide a rally attempt to any Cx, Dx, or any other Ex units.

If we wanted to rally unit B1 however, we find that the units able to give an extra rally attempt are units B0 and A0. Why can unit A0 provide a rally attempt to a Bx unit and not any of the other units? Well refer back to the pic of the HQ Menu.



We see that the Battalion Commander's commands are listed as B - Rifle Co VN. Now, see how this differs from the Company Commander in the pic below.



His commands are listed as C - Rifle Plt VN, D - Rifle Plt VN, and E - Rifle Plt VN. The long and short of this is that if a unit is not listed in the list of commands for a company commander or battalion commander then they can not provide a rally to said unit. Hence the fact that unit A0 could not provide a rally to unit E1 while they could provide one to unit B1 if they so desired.

Now, as far as being in contact to provide a rally attempt, it doesn't matter if the units involved have radios or not since the unit providing the rally must always be within 5 hexes of the unit they're trying to rally. The only thing radios are really good for, assuming you are using the full realism settings, is to call for support from an x0 unit and remain in contact with your higher commander at more than 5 or so hexes. Basically, if you are out of contact and you are an x0 unit then you will not be able to call for support fire and you will suffer some suppression. Any other unit out of contact will only suffer some suppression, that's basically it.

Hope all that can help any other players, new and old.

[jivemi]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

1) Without radio contact the platoon commander can rally any section of his platoon, if within about 5 hexes (no LOS), about 10 (500m) if the element is in LOS.

2) The company commander can do the same for any elements in his company to the same ranges, if without radio contact.

3) The Battle Group commander can also rally any subordinates without radio contact to the same distances and circumstances.

4) Contact is determined at the start of your phase. ordinary elements are determined for their platoon leader, leaders for the next formation level up.

NB - sometimes (and rarely) contact is allowed beyond 10 hexes with no LOS or radio link. Assume someone sent a runner/liaison officer to find them.

Cheers
Andy

Well I'll be hornswoggled. All along I've been operating under the assumption they've gotta be within 3 or 4 hexes of each other. As the game guide sez:

"Some units (especially infantry) have no radios and must keep voice contact, this is only reliable to 3 or 4 hexes (200 metres). A common fault many players have is to spread their units in a platoon formation kilometres apart, they are then out of command control, and if they get a reverse, they will then tend to run away a lot. Therefore, keep your leaders closed up to the men as much as is possible,"

Learn something new almost every day with this fascinating game. Thanks for the clarification!

[Felix Nephthys]

Originally Posted by jivemi

Well I'll be hornswoggled. All along I've been operating under the assumption they've gotta be within 3 or 4 hexes of each other. As the game guide sez:

"Some units (especially infantry) have no radios and must keep voice contact, this is only reliable to 3 or 4 hexes (200 metres). A common fault many players have is to spread their units in a platoon formation kilometres apart, they are then out of command control, and if they get a reverse, they will then tend to run away a lot. Therefore, keep your leaders closed up to the men as much as is possible,"

Learn something new almost every day with this fascinating game. Thanks for the clarification!

Don't know if you were thanking me or Mobhack but you're welcome anyways for the clarification.

[scorpio_rocks]

Originally Posted by jivemi

Well I'll be hornswoggled. All along I've been operating under the assumption they've gotta be within 3 or 4 hexes of each other. As the game guide sez:

"Some units (especially infantry) have no radios and must keep voice contact, this is only reliable to 3 or 4 hexes (200 metres). A common fault many players have is to spread their units in a platoon formation kilometres apart, they are then out of command control, and if they get a reverse, they will then tend to run away a lot. Therefore, keep your leaders closed up to the men as much as is possible,"

Learn something new almost every day with this fascinating game. Thanks for the clarification!

Remember there is a difference between "CAN rally within 5 to 10 hexes" and "only RELIABLE to 3 or 4 hexes"- both statements are true!

[Felix Nephthys]

I myself have found that as far as rallying is concerned, regardless of whether or not a unit has a radio or whether it is or isn't within LOS of the unit to be rallied, a unit can only give a rally to another unit within 5 hexes or less. Any more than 5 hexes and it won't happen.

[FlDirtbag]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

1) Without radio contact the platoon commander can rally any section of his platoon, if within about 5 hexes (no LOS), about 10 (500m) if the element is in LOS.

2) The company commander can do the same for any elements in his company to the same ranges, if without radio contact.

3) The Battle Group commander can also rally any subordinates without radio contact to the same distances and circumstances.

4) Contact is determined at the start of your phase. ordinary elements are determined for their platoon leader, leaders for the next formation level up.

NB - sometimes (and rarely) contact is allowed beyond 10 hexes with no LOS or radio link. Assume someone sent a runner/liaison officer to find them.

Cheers
Andy

Is there any reason why a platoon commander (w/ rally points available) would not help rally a subordinate who is in contact? Is there an additional "roll" that I'm unaware of? I feel like I'm missing something.
I know this is an old post, but hopefully you can help me out. Thanks in advance,
Shawn

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by FlDirtbag

Is there any reason why a platoon commander (w/ rally points available) would not help rally a subordinate who is in contact? Is there an additional "roll" that I'm unaware of? I feel like I'm missing something.
I know this is an old post, but hopefully you can help me out. Thanks in advance,
Shawn

SP rallies down the command chain. The highest leader available rallies a unit first in the SP universe. Once he has exhausted his rallies, the next down has a go, and finally the unit leader is the final one to have a go.

Therefore it is usually best to check the platoon CO first as if he is in need of rallying from pinned you want him to do his own unit first. Otherwise you might end up with rallied subordinates and a still pinned platoon and/or company CO holding any advance up.

I have thought about rewriting the rally code to the (logical) sequence of lowest leader till rallies are expended, then platoon, etc (- i.e. up the command hierarchy) but have never quite got round to it.

cheers
Andy

[Felix Nephthys]

Originally Posted by FlDirtbag

Is there any reason why a platoon commander (w/ rally points available) would not help rally a subordinate who is in contact? Is there an additional "roll" that I'm unaware of? I feel like I'm missing something.
I know this is an old post, but hopefully you can help me out. Thanks in advance,
Shawn

The only reasons I can think of as to why a platoon commander with rally points available would not rally a subordinate are that he is either retreating or routed and/or more than 5 hexes away.