.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

Raging Tiger- Save $9.00
winSPMBT: Main Battle Tank- Save $5.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > Shrapnel Community > Space Empires: IV & V

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old December 8th, 2001, 03:05 AM

Aub Aub is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 83
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Aub is on a distinguished road
Default Stealth Armor: Unbalanced

Well, I think I played enough of SE IV to say that stealth armor is a very much unbalanced feature in the game.

Consider this: for every offence there is a defense, and the defense is usually less costly. That is the way it should be - the attacker has the huge advantage of surprise, and concentration of force.

Examples: PDC are cheap, missiles and fighters are expensive, the self-destruct device is much cheaper than boarding parties (and security stations are more effective), shield depleting weapons are costlier to research than shields themselves. Ships cost more maintenance than bases. And so on.

It is the same way with cloaking vs. scanning: cloaks are expensive to build and hard to research; scanners are cheaper in both respects.

BUT: Stealth Armor is extremely cheap (and you gat it along with the regular Armor and other benefits), and once you get it you can do stealth attacks, which gives you a huge advantage. Counter-measures? They are rather expensive...

As a result, Stealth Armor is a MUST, and there is no way around it. Once everyone gets it, they put it on all ships, and then before scanners are researched the game becomes more of a guesswork than a strategy game. This is what I call an "unbalanced feature", when you do't have a choice about it.

Of course this all does not matter that much in HUGE galaxy games or games with all-tech start. But if you are playing a 4-player game in a medium galaxy...

Does Stealth Armor need to be changed? E.g. if it's Armor VII - Armor IX instead of Armor IV - Armor VI, it would become much more palatable


Aub
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old December 8th, 2001, 03:34 AM
Suicide Junkie's Avatar
Suicide Junkie Suicide Junkie is offline
Shrapnel Fanatic
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,451
Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Suicide Junkie is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Stealth Armor: Unbalanced

Countermeasures for stealth armor are actually quite cheap. One spysat per system is not expensive to build, and is free maintenance-wise.

As long as you research the first level in some sensor tech, defending against stealth armor is free.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old December 8th, 2001, 04:07 AM

Aub Aub is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 83
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Aub is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Stealth Armor: Unbalanced

quote:
Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
As long as you research the first level in some sensor tech, defending against stealth armor is free.


Yes, but researching it is more expensive than the armor itself. And the tech you'd research is not otehrwise an obvious choice (e.g. gravitic sensors). Plus, the guys who puts Stealth Armor on his ships does not lose anything - I'd put it on my ships even if it didn't have the stealth ability, because of it's other advantages!

Please gat me right, I don't think Stealth Armor is a game breaker I'm simply saying it's unbalancing... other strategies don't hold against it, you HAVE to do it...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old December 8th, 2001, 06:52 AM

Baron Munchausen Baron Munchausen is offline
General
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 4,323
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Baron Munchausen is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Stealth Armor: Unbalanced

Advanced Miltary Science, levels 3-6, gives Hyper-optics. The very FIRST level of this will defeat stealth armor. Yes, it costs a bit more in research terms but remember some of the 'special' techs like Psychic and Temporal also get sensors free with their racial tech trees. So it's not such a big deal. Personally, I think it makes the game more realistic. It's actually quite difficult to see a tiny little ship in the vastness of space. Standard 'vision' (ability to detect ships) really ought to be changed to have limited range instead of being 'all or nothing' over a whole system. Then stealth armor would just let you get closer before being seen.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old December 8th, 2001, 07:47 AM
Taqwus's Avatar

Taqwus Taqwus is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 2,162
Thanks: 2
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Taqwus is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Stealth Armor: Unbalanced

Hm. Are cloaked ships still prohibited from sweeping?
__________________
Are we insane yet? Are we insane yet? Aiiieeeeee...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old December 8th, 2001, 08:42 PM
MegaTrain's Avatar

MegaTrain MegaTrain is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 115
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
MegaTrain is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Stealth Armor: Unbalanced

I think in the Gold release they've fixed it so when a cloaked minesweeper enters a mine field, it automatically decloaks to sweep.

Well, that's better than just being killed by the minefield, but it does expose you to attacks by other enemy in the sector.
__________________
-MegaTrain-
Athlon 1.3 GHz running at 1.6 GHz on an iWill KK266
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2025, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.