ATGM Units

[Imp]

Most units seem to have good routines for using weapons but I was wondering what peoples views were on ATGMs & if they could be changed.
Ranges are in hexes
Foot ATGMS
Set range to engage infantry at say 3 hexes regardless of second weapon range.
The idea is to stop them giving away there position & having shots bled preventing the use of the ATGM.
I assume it would work like the Y key & if fired on the range would then be reset.

Vehicle ATGMs equiped with a MG normally an AAMG I think.
Not IFVs with ATGMs just SP-ATGMs like the German Jaguar
Let the AAMG function normally vs air.
Versus infantry set range to say 10 - 12.
Reasoning again to stop giving away & bleeding of shots.
As far as I know very few infantry weapons have a range greater than 10 that are capable of destroying it.
Couple of RPGs with range of 12 MBT LAW & latest Panzerfaust 3
The odd flame type RPG
GL Teams equipped with HEAT

Also both should only engage Soft Vehicles at close range, say 8 hexes.
ATGMs are not effective vs them let the MMG & HMG do it

What are peoples views on this pros & cons, there is the odd instance when its not beneficial but on the whole this would help the AI.
Its the one type of unit I always set using the Op Fire Filter

[Imp]

Well 28 views & no comments so far so I would take that to mean people like it as it is.
Was an idea as just played a battle in 1989 vs the AI as USA. I admit Dragons are easier to spot than most ATGMs as size 1 & relativly short range but there firing at my infantry meant I hardly got a surprise throughout the whole game.
This despite the fact the ratio at that time is about 2 squads to 1 Dragon.
RPG equiped AT teams seem more likely to give you a surprise by staying silent & then firing in thier turn.

[Paderborn]

If I'm understanding you you're saying weapons such as ATGMs and maybe tank cannon would fire at opposing armor only while secondary tank weapons such as MGs and AAMGs would not (generally)? Likewise soft tatgets such as trucks and infantry would be fired upon by MGs but not ATGMs and tank cannon. Do I have it right? You cited a couple of benefits plus, to my mind, it would move the game along somewhat. Reducing the riccochet sound effects would help too.

[Imp]

Not really I was mainly advocating it for ATGM teams, because they cant fire it if moved so remaining concealed & not having to relocate is important for them, especially for the AI that cant think to pull them out.
It is way to easy to use the gamey tactic of bleeding 2 shots off them & then exposing an AFV to kill them.
Dont get me wrong I hate them they are the scourge of the modern battlefield, especially those sides that use a lot of them. They negate to a large extent the power of Mech formations as caution is required supporting your infantry & moving to reinforce.
The soft target bit is mainly because its giving away its position (roughly at least) for a target other units can deal with easily enough. Also considiring it only has 4 shots & they are very ineffective vs soft targets its a waste really.
Tanks IFVs etc do tend to be pretty good at target selection anyway with the exception they sometimes fire at mid ranged infantry when you dont want them to.
Staying hidden is not always a priority to them though & they can move & fire.
I think of ATGM teams as the armour equivalent of the sniper, they cause disruption & caution & slow things down a lot if they can perform their role. Locate & destroy is high priority.

[Paderborn]

Okay, I see what you're saying. I prefer SPMBT over SPWW2 much of the time primarily because the ATGM teams provide an added dimension to the modern battlefield. You make a good analogy by calling them the "armour equivalent of a sniper" which is how I often use them placing them in ambush positions to thin out enemy armour or alert me to armoured threats. I know I'm still a little off topic here and would like to read what others have to say regarding your original message specifics.

[gila]

I'm not sure of the point here,i suspect it's the age old topic on why ATGM's waste shots on soft targets in OP fire.

If you want to keep them silent,just turn the main weapon off and wait until the juicier targets come in,, then let them have it.

[void1984]

I like the proposal.

(Similarly, I find it tiresome for WW2 tank destroyers to turn off the main gun every time for the enemy turn duration, after it has moved to its fully allowance. It won't hit the target, it will waste precious ammunition, and it will reveal it's location.)

[gila]

Originally Posted by Imp

What are peoples views on this pros & cons, there is the odd instance when its not beneficial but on the whole this would help the AI.

I see i missed this part,

[gila]

@IMP

Why? are you so concerned about the AI,they already use ample amount of ATGM's IMO.

Your proposal on having the AI filter fire thier AT's is of course,, beyond the scope this game.

If was possible,then there be countless complaints i suspect.

Or am I still missing your point here

[Imp]

Your proposal on having the AI filter fire thier AT's is of course,, beyond the scope this game

.
No its not they can be set up to work that way

Why? are you so concerned about the AI

Because its an easy fix unlike sorting the pathing so that the AI does not lemming charge at you & the AI needs all the help it can get.

On that as a sort of fix when a vehicle fires its smoke dischargers (or possibly is fired on) could that triger a series of choices for the AI all of which include unloading any passengers.
1) Stop & unload
2) Move back along the original path & unload
3) Advance & unload.
Also if possible all later moving vehicles should unload when get within say 2-5 hexes of the event determined randomly.
Or as no idea how it works have hexes that are fired on by the enemy"flaged" by the AI as hostile & vehicles near it go to combat speeds & unload.
So they will move at only 1-3 hexes following passengers if possible.
or possibly vehicle will remain stationary the turn after it unloads only moving if a enemy unit is seen that it can fire on with a small move.
Perhaps making hexes that have recieved fire act as temporary Victory flag hexes would work as the AI seems to perform better when within about 10 hexes of them