Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01

[Pibwl]

First touch of Czechoslovak and Slovak OOBs, without going too deep (there could be added also Czechoslovak units in the UK, fighting in France in 1944, and more Slovak Uprising units - maybe in a next season... maybe not)

Main source is Charles K. Kliment, Vladimir Francev: Czechoslovak armored fighting vehicles 1918-1948

Czechoslovakia

001 CKD LT vz.34 - manufacturer's name CKD is redundant. Gun-armed tanks were delivered only from 12/35 (now 1/35 - it would need a change in formations).
MGs should be in fact vz.35 (#178 CMG and #131 BMG)
Same for Slovak OOB unit 003

There could be added another entry, with two light vz.26 MGs only, in 4/34-12/35 (weapon #230 BMG and a newly created single TMG).

002 Skoda LT vz.35 - manufacturer's name is redundant. First delivered in 12/36 (now 6/36)
MGs should be in fact vz.35 (#178 CMG and #131 BMG)
Standard ammo was 78 rounds (24 AT, 54 HE)
Same for Slovak OOB unit 002

008,255 Tancik vz.33 - in fact it had two BMG vz.26 (Slovak OOB has weapon #154 vz.26 (2) BMG - although I propose, that tankettes' MGs should have normal range)

Delivered only in 2/34 - needs change of formations 008, 011, 067, 069, 103
A better icon is 2757 (2759 winter) - they were very colorful (same for Slovak OOB units 008,255)
Front armour of unit 255 should be 1 like unit 08 (up to 12 mm)

Used again during the Slovak Uprising in 8/44


15 HKL6p Hakl - DShK MG is unlikely - most probably, original MG-42

20 OT-34/85 - usage of Soviet flamethrower tanks apart from the Soviet Army is doubtful - and Czech sources treating about post-war flamethrower tank prototype MP-1 don't mention, that Czech army had experience with such Soviet vehicles during the war (the army wanted to buy OT-34 in 1948, but the Soviets answered, that they are out of production)

22 SU-122 is very doubtful - according to Russian sources, they were replaced with more AT-capable SP-guns in early 1944. Production ended in 8/43 and only 638 were made.
On this Czech page there's no mention, that it was used in Czechoslovakia: http://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/12426/SOV-SU-122 and in users section there are only Soviet and German flags.

17 AOP Light Truck - picture of 1.5t Dodge is inappropriate - if it was Soviet-delivered, 19037 3/4t Dodge or jeep is better (few 1.5t Dodges were delivered to the USSR).

35 Hetzer - was designated ST-I post-war. There's no mention, that they had DShK AAMG (and it's hard to imagine on such small vehicle). Firstly they could have original German MGs - but according to Kliment's book, "in Czechoslovak Army's service the Rundumfeur machine gun was deleted"

37 ST-II - name is correct, but it should be Marder III H with Pak-40 (18 were sold to Slovakia in 1944). I'll attach a photo of Czechoslovak Marder, there is also another:
http://www.ondrejkovics-sandor.com/u..._084512_23.jpg

50 OA vz 27 - a proper picture is 23098, used formerly for this unit (a current one is OA vz 30) - or there are pictures at http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...a_OA-vz-27.php
http://www.brannamoc1938.eu/obrnene-...obil-oa-vz-27/
Speed was only 35 km/h

An icon is completely different - probably the best would be 4023 of ADGZ (4025 winter) (grey camo is correct for OA vz.27).
There could be also German Sdkfz221 #4311, albeit with an open turret.

51 OA vz 30 - nicer picture is 9343, erroneously used for the unit above.
Better icon is 213 - they were camouflaged (winter 4448)
Main armament was only one vz.26 TMG (LMG in fact), and one such BMG. They could have lower kill, than other TMGs (adapted LMG, fed from box magazines)
Delivered from 1/34 only (now 1/30)
Used again during the Slovak Uprising in 8/44

Same for Slovak OOB units 50 and 51

79 37mm KPUV vz 30 - seems, that it should be vz.34 in fact: http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...puv-vz.34.html (next model was vz.37 - http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...-utocne-vozbe/)
It entered service in 1935, but I don't know what guns in AT role had Czechoslovakia before...

144 2&1/2 Ton Truck - if it was Soviet-delivered, then it would be Studebaker picture 9270, possibly AT-wheel

145 White Scout Car - MGs should be original US-made. PTRD is less likely at this stage of war (besides, they weren't standard armament of scout cars)

159 Avia B534 - according to a Czech book on B534, it could only carry six 10-kg bombs (now 120 kg)

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Formation 070 FT-17 Platoon - seems, that it was five-tank platoon (Kliment's book says, after buying 5 tanks, that "the army now had a full platoon of tanks to show and to train with")

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It would be nice to add units of the Slovak Uprising in 8-10/44 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovak_National_Uprising

- the easiest would be to copy tanks 02 LT vz.35, 03 LT vz.38, LT vz.40 (from Slovak OOB), 08 Tancik (marginal role though), 37 ST-II (as Marder III H), armoured car 51 OA vz 30, PzKpfw-III N (from German oob)
As for aircraft, 159 Avia B534 and 160 Letov S 328 were used.
It may be assumed, that Slovak Pak-40 guns were also used.

Michal

[Pibwl]

All armoured vehicles of the Slovak Uprising could go into one category, and be used as single vehicles or insurgent tank platoons (3-vehicle?)

If we'd like to add insurgent artillery, there were mostly used:
- 37mm vz.37 ATG (#81),
- PAK-40 ATG,
- 100mm howitzer vz.30 (#91, #173 battery),
- 100mm howitzer vz.14/19 (most typical),
- 105mm leFH-18,
- 20mm AA gun (#85)

There should be added 100mm FH vz.14/19, as the most typical Czechoslovak howitzer before the war (could be copied 332 and 411 units from Polish OOB).


That's all without going too deep in the Czechoslovak artillery.

It's worth to add some of tracked artillery tractors before the war - they had several models, most numerous was Praga IV, produced in series from 1938 http://www.brannamoc1938.eu/technika...ktor-praga-iv/
http://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/23041/CZK-Praga-IV

In the future, there could be added Avia B-71 level bomber - licensed variant of Soviet SB-2, if we have an icon with Czechoslovak markings

There was also a funny-looking level bomber Aero MB-200 http://www.brannamoc1938.eu/aero2/aero-mb-200/ (French Bloch)

[Pibwl]

Slovak OOB01

02,02 LT vz.35, LT vz.34 - official Slovak designations were LT-35, LT-34.
They both used three-color camouflage, like in the CS army - icon 473.
Both were used until the end (10/43 for this OOB) for training (although LT 35 indeed were withdrawn from front service by the end of 1941, and LT-34 weren't used in combat).

07,11 LT- vz.38, LT- vz.40 - names LT-38, LT-40.
Both should use the same khaki green camouflage - I think icon 1047 is appropriate for both (and in accordance with next tanks in OOB)

According to a Czech book on the Slovak Army, LT-40 tanks were completed with guns only in 12/41 - earlier they took part in combat armed with two MGs only (there should be made a second entry) - a photo http://utocnavozba.wz.cz/foto/Fotky_Praga/LT-40_01.jpg http://www.uhlib.ru/voennaja_istorij...ii/pic_754.jpg .

In 9/43 the Germans delivered first new LT-38 E/G variant, with stronger armour, that could be added (it's worth to add them also to Czechoslovak OOB, as participating in the Slovak uprising)

32 PzKw IIc - in fact, delivered only in 10/43 (the last month of this OOB). Class Armoured car is acceptable, since they replaced armoured cars in recce units.

33 PzKw IIIj - in fact, they should be PzKpfw III N (with short 75mm guns), delivered in 2/43.

34 Marder I 37L - they should be Marder III H. In fact they were delivered only in early 1944, but it's worth to keep them in 10/43
(BTW: why does this OOB end in 10/43?... Slovak axis units lasted until the uprising in 8/44 at least, though they tried to avoid active combat if they could)

52 OA vz 30bis - there's no mention about OA vz 30 armed with 20mm guns in Czech books (and these cars were too light to even accept a HMG...)

80 75mm Pak 97 - I couldn't find a confirmation of their usage, but PAK-40 were used from 1943

82,83 47mm KPUV vz 38 - the Czech book on Slovak army doesn't mention 47mm AT guns, only 37mm (I assume, that all were taken by the Germans, who needed them more)

86 47mm AA-Gun - strange gun, I couldn't find any confirmation.

142 Tatra T92 AOP - should be T82 (on the photo; T92 doesn't seem to be used by Slovakia)

158 Avia B.534 - as in the Czechoslovak OOB (6 x 10kg bombs max)

223 Avia Bf 109G - should be just Bf 109G (Avia was a manufacturer of post-war machines)

Easy additions:
- RSO tractor from 1943
- Aero A.100 bomber from Czechoslovak OOB (14 were used)
- Praga T-VI tractor (#223 from Romanian OOB, with changed class)
- Praga IV tractor, if it's added to Czechoslovak OOB
- 100 mm vz.14/19 FH (most numerous FH, as in a previous post)
- Praga RN medium truck (#212 from Romanian OOB)
- Praga AV utility vehicle (#216 from Romanian OOB)
- Tatra 57 field car (#222 from Romanian OOB, as utility vehicle and/or FO vehicle)

[Pibwl]

Last one:

Czechoslovakia:

4 CKD ST vz.39 - it should use a bigger icon 469 (of Turan) - now it's the same as light LT vz.38.
Manufacturer's name is redundant.

13 Tatra Truck - a detail, but maybe it's worth to change class to Light Truck (which it was in fact) instead of APC(wheel) - it's the only unit in both classes in that period, so it won't demand other changes.

142 Tatra T92 AOP - a better name might be just Tatra AOP - pictured is T82 (in truck variant), used from 1936, but earlier there were used other 3-axle cars T26/30 and T72. T92 is wrong (haven't entered production before the German invasion).

158 Avia B534 uses a photo of less typical early version with open canopy (173 made) - an icon of the Czechoslovak aviation was the 4sth series, with a closed canopy (272 made, attached sample photo)

163 Avia BH-33L - I couldn't confirm, if BH-33 took any bombs, and it's highly unlikely, that it carried 50kg one. All publications mention only 2 MGs.

166-168,217-219 La-5N - should be FN

Easy additions:
- Praga RN medium truck (#212 from Romanian OOB) in 1934-39
- Praga AV utility vehicle (#216 from Romanian OOB) in 1936-39

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

Last one:

I fervently hope you are serious about that

Don

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

Last one:

In my dreams............

Originally Posted by Pibwl;832540
[U

Czechoslovakia:[/u]

4 CKD ST vz.39 - it should use a bigger icon 469 (of Turan) - now it's the same as light LT vz.38.

Actually there is a ST vz.39 Icon already in the SHP files but it's old ( 475 ) so I was going to use the green version of the Type 97 Chi-Ha Kai as it's much closer to the vz.39 than one would guess but then realized converting it to the Czech prototype was a relativity quick job




4x normal

[Pibwl]

I was serious about the last post in this subject, to make you feel more relaxed

I didn't want to add you work with a relatively unimportant prototype, but in service they would be camouflaged... (standard green-yellow-brown). BTW: you probably know this upper view
http://www.the-blueprints.com/bluepr...vz39-v-8-h.png

One more thought, since I wrote this post anyway. It would be cool to add PA-II Zelva armoured car http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...A-II_Zelva.php
An icon 3255 of Humber scout car would be almost ideal, albeit green.
Of course, no more than 2 of its 4 MGs could fire at one target.
According to Kliment's book, a designation OA vz.23 was only a planned one, since they were never officially commissioned.

Regards
Michal

[SaS TrooP]

Digging. As always, I am not doing direct OOB suggestions as I suck at it :P

I would however consider adding Czechoslovak Army in the West into the OOB. It is in fact already there, as from July 1945 PHK Corps are available for Czechs with most of the tanks. It would be nice to see some more infantry organized on British pattern. Units would be added only late war and should not take much time.

[Griefbringer]

Originally Posted by SaS TrooP

I would however consider adding Czechoslovak Army in the West into the OOB. It is in fact already there, as from July 1945 PHK Corps are available for Czechs with most of the tanks. It would be nice to see some more infantry organized on British pattern. Units would be added only late war and should not take much time.

Would those infantry units organised in the British pattern differ from British infantry units in the British OOB, which can already be purchased as "captured allies" by anyone wanting to construct such forces for a scenario?

[DRG]

Originally Posted by griefbringer

would those infantry units organised in the british pattern differ from british infantry units in the british oob, which can already be purchased as "captured allies" by anyone wanting to construct such forces for a scenario?

EXACTLY correct

The armour was added for what ifs, the infantry was not and there is little need for them anyway except in scenarios and there are ample ways built into the game to added them seamlessly from other OOB's for scenario use