something I do not like in gold patch

[oleg]

Version 1.65:

"8. Changed - Ships and fighters with zero supplies will not be able to fire any of their weapons."

The idea is sound but it makes engine destroying weapons too powerfull. They were devastating even before by immobilising ships, but now... one shot from light cruiser and mighty dreadnought is useless chunk of metal. Supply storage (more is better !!!) is imperative. Even then, one or two lucky shots and ship is basicaly dead.

Since every military ship from now on must carry supply storagies, why not give this ability to ship hulls ? The basic idea that once ship runs out of supplies is useless will still work, but it will eliminate the russian roulette from battles. The hull's supply should be relatively small value of course.

Related issue : In standard SE IV, bigger ships have less engines and are much more fragile than say escorts. This is just plain wrong and completely rediculous, IMHO. SE IV should really be based on quasi-Newtonian propulsion, like P&N or Proportions.

[dogscoff]

This is true. in my current vsAI I can disable a large fleet of battlecruisers with a single escort. (with ECM, size bonus, training bonus and an events predictor it's virtually imposible to hit without seekers=-)

I like Oleg's idea of building supply storage into the hull (not too much). Obviously this is easily modded, but I think Aaron ought to address this in the official release in a future patch. While he's at it, maybe he could fix the "My engine is half as big as my fuel tank but holds just as much fuel" supply storage component. Maybe add in a 5kt supply box as well, to help balance those anti-engine-weapons.

[PvK]

quote:

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Originally posted by oleg:
...
Related issue : In standard SE IV, bigger ships have less engines and are much more fragile than say escorts. This is just plain wrong and completely rediculous, IMHO. SE IV should really be based on quasi-Newtonian propulsion, like P&N or Proportions.

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As you can see in Proportions, I agree qNp is better. SE3, by the way, had crude qNp. Escorts through light cruisers required one engine per standard movement point, and could mount up to six. Cruisers and battlecruisers required two per, and could mount up to ten, battleships and dreadnoughts, if I remember correctly, were 3 per, up to 12, and I think baseships were 4 per, max I don't recall.

Interestingly, I heard that this was changed in SE4 in response to player requests (!). I think it was that some players didn't like having to pile 10-12 engines on a ship. (SE3 doesn't have a condensed design view.)

Personally, though, I don't think the supply component storage should be increased, regardless of the comparison to engine supply. This is because it makes sense to me that engines could create energy for the rest of the ship via their operation, and also I see component size rating as impact on ship capabilities, rather than literal size, so I think the direct comparison is invalid.

I would just recommend making supply components a lot cheaper, although that will affect the cheapness of supply ships, which is a big change to the standard set (presently, making a supply ship generally costs more than making a warship).

PvK

[Suicide Junkie]

Baseships in SE3 were 10 Engines per move, max 30 engines.

This is because it makes sense to me that engines could create energy for the rest of the ship via their operation
Engines use supplies, they don't generate any.

My objection is because of the question "Why can't I replace that supply tank with two engines, and just unplug/not use those two? It would double my supply storage!

[Dracus]

The point of this change was to make it where battles use up supplies.

[TerranC]

Actually, I like the Idea that engine weapons made more devastating as it give those almost dead empires hope

And rightfully also, which gives you another reason to think and counterdevelop rather than keep building souped up dreadnoughts over and over again.