Hi, all--

[cswiger]

I just spent the past few hours going over the data files for the TDM-modpack and DevNullModGold. The second mod feels comfortable to me, as I'm a fan of books based on StarFire (such as by Weber & White).

Anyway, what I want to change about the game is to incorporate more of a sense of strategy rather than tactics (ie, with more logistics & economy building), and I want to take advantage of the capabilities of the game engine-- ie, the flexibility of the tech tree, the component/tonnage build system which can output anything from individual troops or fighters to bases and capital ships.

Planet population should mean more and there should be reasons for capturing a planet rather than nuking it from orbit. If for no other reason, a Mean Evil Empire(tm) such as an "Arachnid" race might create facilities on a captured planet to convert them into organic resources and research points...?

Anyway, I want to do something like making transport ships required and meaningful to actually defend-- ie, making support more important. Perhaps by making cargo required as ammo-- have capital ship missiles/heavy bombardment missiles simulated as drones. Be nice if you couldn't reload all weapon types (ie, missile bays) via solar collectors and actually needed a production facility once in a while. :-)

I also want to adjust carrier-to-fighter ratio quite a bit. An 800K "light carrier" should only be able to carry, say, 8 or 12 25K large fighters, rather than 70 or so. My Last game, I refused to build any ships except carriers and fighters (and colony ships). Doing that plus only using weapon platforms to defend left me with low maintainance.

Does anyone have a source of numbers for the ratio of component types (ie, weapons/power/drive/control/crew space) for 'real ships'. If I compare something like a CV or SSBN, that might be a starting point for updating the balance.

More types of warp points are definitely needed, and there should be a reason to equip explorer ships with sensors. Well, time to start tweaking.

Later,
-Chuck

[dogscoff]

Anyway, what I want to change about the game is to incorporate more of a sense of strategy rather than tactics (ie, with more logistics & economy building)...
Planet population should mean more and there should be reasons for capturing a planet rather than nuking it from orbit.

Sounds like you want to play PvK's Proportions mod. There's a copy on your Gold CD, and a more advanced Version available here on the forum.

If for no other reason, a Mean Evil Empire(tm) such as an "Arachnid" race might create facilities on a captured planet to convert them into organic resources and research points...?

It's been suggested and discussed, but this can't be modded using the current game engine. At least I don't think so. Future patches might make it possible.

Anyway, I want to do something like making transport ships required and meaningful to actually defend-- ie, making support more important.

Proportions mod, or maybe Derek's mod, which (as I understand it) is a sort of Devnull/ Proportions hybrid.

Perhaps by making cargo required as ammo-- have capital ship missiles/heavy bombardment missiles simulated as drones. Be nice if you couldn't reload all weapon types (ie, missile bays) via solar collectors and actually needed a production facility once in a while. :-)

Your drone idea should work as you intend, but it won't be easy. FOr one thing, your new missiles will be able to fly from one system to another on their own - they won't be restricted to the combat screen. For another, you may have trouble balancing the cargo sizes. You should be able to do it though.

I also want to adjust carrier-to-fighter ratio quite a bit. An 800K "light carrier" should only be able to carry, say, 8 or 12 25K large fighters, rather than 70 or so.

Easy enough to do, but again, you may have trouble reconciling the new cargo capacities with your drone/missile idea and the modified cargo storage of Proportions/ Derek's mod.

Does anyone have a source of numbers for the ratio of component types (ie, weapons/power/drive/control/crew space) for 'real ships'.

I have seen such a thing posted, probably over a year ago. I'll try to find it (but I'm not sure I'll succeed=-)

More types of warp points are definitely needed, and there should be a reason to equip explorer ships with sensors

Agreed, although these are largely hard code issues. Still, you might be able to do something that I might not think possible- After all I'm not amodder myself.

Well, time to start tweaking.

Good luck!

[Phoenix-D]

"FOr one thing, your new missiles will be able to fly from one system to another on their own - they won't be restricted to the combat screen."

That can be fixed. Changing the drone engines to prove increasing amounts of Combat Move rather than standard movement points will do the trick. I fiddiled with the same for a possible Honor Harrington mod.

Phoenix-D

[cswiger]

Originally posted by dogscoff:
Sounds like you want to play PvK's Proportions mod. There's a copy on your Gold CD, and a more advanced Version available here on the forum.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Of course, it's easy for me to talk about making changes...it's harder to implement them and end up with results that are more playable and more enjoyable. Changes made 'for the sake of realism' alone don't always help.

Anyway, I want to do something like making transport ships required and meaningful to actually defend-- ie, making support more important.

Proportions mod, or maybe Derek's mod, which (as I understand it) is a sort of Devnull/ Proportions hybrid.

My first thought was to have a distinction between civilian hardware and military hardware, so that civilian components provide significant maintenance reduction, but are sitting ducks in combat (low damage ratios considering the equipment tonnage, reduced combat bonuses for size), whereas military-grade components cost more up-front and in maintenance.

For example, let's say that civilian "Ion Engines I" also have a 'Combat Movement' ability of -1. The intent would be that civilian freighters should be almost stationary during a fight. A freighter shouldn't be capable of outrunning a missile or a fighter, even with a Solar Sail III.

Perhaps by making cargo required as ammo-- have capital ship missiles/heavy bombardment missiles simulated as drones. Be nice if you couldn't reload all weapon types (ie, missile bays) via solar collectors and actually needed a production facility once in a while. :-)

Your drone idea should work as you intend, but it won't be easy. For one thing, your new missiles will be able to fly from one system to another on their own - they won't be restricted to the combat screen. For another, you may have trouble balancing the cargo sizes. You should be able to do it though.

It will require careful adjustment of drone components and supply, yes. But it's okay if a planet or ship can launch drones to attack several sectors away in a system.

What component abilities control the following behaviors:

"May or may not have the ability to warp through warp points."

"May or may not be under Player control (depends on components)."

More types of warp points are definitely needed, and there should be a reason to equip explorer ships with sensors.

Agreed, although these are largely hard code issues. Still, you might be able to do something that I might not think possible- After all I'm not amodder myself.

To start with, I was going to create different warp points with different turbulence damage levels. If you expect all interstellar ships to at least have minimal armor and/or shielding, that could serve prevent drones & fighters from crossing warp points, because they can't take the damage of the crossing. Or maybe only the larger sizes could make a transit with advanced tech, thus giving a potential to do more with warp point transits as choke points...?

I also need to do something which lets me turn an asteroid field into a source of 'kinetic bolides' which could then be used to bombard planets from the edges of a system, at least if the attacker is given enough time to construct such weapons. Small ones just kill pop. and reduce planet values. Big ones have 'Destroy Planet Size'.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback.
-Chuck

[Phoenix-D]

"What component abilities control the following behaviors:

"May or may not have the ability to warp through warp points."

"May or may not be under Player control (depends on components).""

none..you just ran into one of the quirks of the data files. Namely, the descriptions tend to be out of data and somewhat inaccurate. This was never implimented.

Phoenix-D

[cswiger]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
none..you just ran into one of the quirks of the data files. Namely, the descriptions tend to be out of data and somewhat inaccurate. This was never implimented.

Thanks-- you just saved me from experimenting.

Gods, this game engine has so much potential as it stands, but if all of the abilities were fully orthogonal rather than being overloaded, the configurability would go way up. For instance, it would be really useful if most or all of the distinctions between unit types, ships, and starbases were a result of component abilities.

It might also help reduce the complex interdependencies between the data files, which would make life easier for modding since changes wouldn't interfere with each other as much. It would also make the process of tuning easier because changes would be more localized and you wouldn't have to rebalance components, damage ratios, etc.

Well, I suspect I'm going to have a busy Memorial Day weekend with this as it is...perhaps I should start with smaller changes.

-Chuck