Re: ammo cannisters

[DRG]

It's entirely up the player how aircraft are loaded. It'd take you a minute with the game to figure out what would go in and what space would be left after it's loaded to allow for "escorts" but there is NO guarantee those "escorts" would land anywhere near where you really need them to be

Don

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

but at least they would be on the same plane

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by iCaMpWiThAWP

but at least they would be on the same plane

Why would you be para-dropping 25 pounders right onto a contested enemy held position anyway?. or vehicles, either.

You would drop them as a second or third wave onto ground the previous waves had by then made safe. Better in gliders which they could then roll off. (Tetrarch off Hamilcars say).

Andy

[RERomine]

I'm confused. Where did the thing about air dropping guns and howitzers come from beyond my joke earlier in the thread?

I understand the part about separating crews from their artillery type pieces (please drop gun before crew jumps ), but did anyone actually have planes designed to drop guns and howitzers during WWII and in significant enough quantities to be useful for something other than special ops? These days, they are typically rolled out of the back of the plane. Maybe someone had planes like that back then, but I don't know of any. Personally, I have always used gliders for delivering guns and small vehicles. I thought it was standard practice back then and really, the main reason they used gliders.

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by RERomine

I'm confused. Where did the thing about air dropping guns and howitzers come from beyond my joke earlier in the thread?

I understand the part about separating crews from their artillery type pieces (please drop gun before crew jumps ), but did anyone actually have planes designed to drop guns and howitzers during WWII and in significant enough quantities to be useful for something other than special ops? These days, they are typically rolled out of the back of the plane. Maybe someone had planes like that back then, but I don't know of any. Personally, I have always used gliders for delivering guns and small vehicles. I thought it was standard practice back then and really, the main reason they used gliders.

from your earlier post:

yea, the idea is great, but i think they might need "escorts" jumping out with them, so, will the planes after loading up the gun still have some carry capacity?(maybe 6 men left is eneough)

I took that to mean you needed escorts from the guns jumping. Escorts meaning that you were going into a hot LZ with paradropped crews, since that was the subject being discussed.

Australia has a pack airborne 25 pounder, others may have airborne pack howitzers.

Personally - I would leave any arty in my deployment zone in a regular battle.

Andy

[thatguy96]

The US Army had both Parachute and Glider Field Artillery Battalions, and at least both were armed with 75mm howitzers. There were definitely manpacks and special drop equipment for disassembled components of the 75mm howitzer. I'm not sure about the 105mm airborne howitzer.

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

Originally Posted by thatguy96

The US Army had both Parachute and Glider Field Artillery Battalions, and at least both were armed with 75mm howitzers. There were definitely manpacks and special drop equipment for disassembled components of the 75mm howitzer. I'm not sure about the 105mm airborne howitzer.

who would drop a disassembled howitzer into a battle area? , i think there were no air dropped 105s, but theres a pack 105

[DRG]

In winSPWW2 the Australian ( ANZAC.. whatever ) OOB has air transportable 25 pounder abrn Howitzer for 9/43 and 9/43 only. AFAIK it was only used once and may have been put in there for a scenario. USMC is the only OOB that has crewed mortars in [A] para formations

This from the text files on that Australian formation

In September of 1943, at the request of the USA, with barely two weeks of training, the Australians deployed two gun detachments of the 2nd/4th Field Regiment to airdrop in support of US paratroops at Nadzeb, New Guinea.*
*
This formation represents one of the two detachments.*

The code to drop crews separate from crewed guns and vehicles in 99.9 % of cases only apples to MBT and is mainly there to keep PBEMer's "Honest" when using air droppable vehicles in modern battles.

Don

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

But will this feature be on the next update right?

[RERomine]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Actually, I didn't say that

I took that to mean you needed escorts from the guns jumping. Escorts meaning that you were going into a hot LZ with paradropped crews, since that was the subject being discussed.

Australia has a pack airborne 25 pounder, others may have airborne pack howitzers.

Personally - I would leave any arty in my deployment zone in a regular battle.

Andy

I actually suggested gliders in the first place.

Originally Posted by RERomine

Yes, they did air drop ammo but it was probably packed differently than in a crate. They used more specialized drop canisters than a wooden box. Yes, the game name is "ammo canister", but they do appear to be boxes to me in the pictures. Setting the C-47 to a carry capacity of 28 rather than 128 keeps people from air dropping antitank guns and the like, as stated by thatguy96. Those types of weapons were delivered by gliders, which could carry them and ammo crates as well. Gliders seem to have no trouble loading in the crates, or for that matter, ammo trucks and M3 ammo tracks.

The only thing I would drop, using gliders, would be small antitank guns if the drop force didn't have adequate, integrated, infantry antitank weapons. I just got confused because it started as a discussion on air dropping ammo canisters and switched to dropping guns because the suggested OOB change allowed for unrealistic unrealistic possibilities.

Originally Posted by RERomine

I tried the same thing and C-47s will also carry and 90mm AA guns as well. Two of them, in fact. I bet those were fun to shove out the side door

I made the first comment about air dropping guns, but was obviously being sarcastic. The OOB changes suggested to allow one thing that would be realistic (dropping ammo canisters) and as a byproduct, created another more unrealistic situation (dropping 90mm AA guns). C-47s might be able to carry large guns, but I have to suspect they would have had a little note on them after dropped, "Some Assembly Required".

Personally, I wouldn't be dropping ammo canisters in the first place because the canisters themselves are unrealistic. They are little black boxes with every type of ammo anyone would ever need. You can find in them tank ammo from 20mm to 380mm, artillery ammo from 75mm to 155mm, mortar rounds from 60mm to 120mm, flame thrower fuel, satchel charges, grenades, rockets, etc. and a host of small arms ammo; all of this in unlimited quantities packed in a box that can be carried on a jeep

Don't worry Don and Andy, I'm not suggesting it be changed. I understand the complications of taking old code and modifying it so only specific ammo types and quantities were loaded into the canister at force selection time and tracking ammo as it's being removed, not to mention a new function for removing ammo in the first place. If you wanted to separate this from other "ammo carrier" types, you are looking at a new class to handle it. Then you have to regression test it to make sure the changes didn't mess up anything else which is much easier in my world than yours. The only practical change would be to get rid of it all together, anyhow and I can do that myself if I want to. At least with ammo dumps and vehicles, you can rationally say those are large enough to have some diversity in the ammo types they carry and carry it in large quantities. As for ammo canisters, I don't use them