Choose your targets

[Imp]

I to came from WAW & did not use target choosing often as got bored pressing the space bar.
I feel the target selection routines in this game are far better anyway so you do not fire at every unit in LOS.
If you want better buy the CD & give them some orders with the opfire filter but you will generaly find in most games just use it now & again when its needed.
Just think of any unit that did something you wish it hadn't as reacting poorly in the heat of the moment.
Not giving your position away is easy just turn down the range if no op filter they will fire back if fired on.
My pet niggle is the occasion when he fires one of my few APCR rounds at a taxi but hey it was in the tube & ready to go.
This is a reason why the other argument that sometimes comes up of being able to select ammo type is a no no. If alowed the guns rate of fire should be reduced if selected manually, fire to clear then load right round.

[Charles22]

Imp: I may be incorrect, but I think you're mistaken in believing that a unit with not enough range for it's attacker (meaning the attacker is within maximum gun range, but not within the player's adjusted range) will engage it when fired upon. I quite often have my infantry take a good beating from enemy infantry because other units have spotted it before I thought they would, and they don't return fire. I often reduce their range to only 1 because I am trying to entrap tanks. Now maybe there's an exception to what you say for AFV's but I doubt it. And it's not like my infantry are so damage in the intitial or subsequent attacks that they're incapable of responding dur to suppression. You assessment, evenb if true, is partially incorrect in that it's possible the unit that is intially being fired upon, does not respond due to it not spotting the attacker, but being spotted itself. A good example of this is a unit being fired upon by a sniper - it isn't possible to respond when the attacker isn't seen.

Note also, if you have seen very many infantry battles, just how many of them turn towards their attacker and don't fire. It seems to me that they do so because they just spotted the attacker, which in some cases would mean they should fire back immediately, or, if not then, then the next time they are attacked from the same unit. Note how they also turn towards the rear of the side's forces when they go into that sort of pre-retreat mode (but are actually listed as retreating), where they haven't got around to moving from the original hex. I know that last point sounds a bit goofy if you haven't noticed it, but a lot of time the attacked will face the opposite direction before physically retreating to another hex.

[Charles22]

IMP: Come to think of it, I think what you say about returning fire is correct, but I think it's only something SPWAW does, and not winSPWW2.

[Imp]

Charles do not take this as gospel as never realy thought about.

As have op filter dont Y key so much but if they can see there attacker they will fire back & there range is reset to that range.

When a unit turns to you & does not fire I think it has a good idea where you are & will likely see you if you fire another shot, its now looking in your general area.

Re facing the other way never thought about but do you not think this represents getting your head down & seeking cover as have lost intrest in engaging the enemy?

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Charles22

Careful guys, as I have heard before on this forum, if you are playing the AI, be aware that the filtering can give you a very significant advantage, as the AI does not have the filtering available.

Something, I might add, rarely heard when WaW opfire confirmation is discussed

Don

[Charles22]

Originally Posted by DRG

Something, I might add, rarely heard when WaW opfire confirmation is discussed

Don

Hmm, I never realized that about SPWAW. So they will fire just as blindly as the SPWW2 rendition, huh? Frankly I got tired of the WAW opfire anyway, as often the unit it picked to do so, was far from being what you would had picked. So WW2's filtering is sort of the same thing, but IMO only better, should one desire an advantage that is. I gets really tiring having to continually deny units that you don't want shooting in SPWAW in opfire.

I bet most people that have played SPWAW would swear the AI does have opfire ability, but it's really hard to tell unless one assumes you would have to see the AI go through more delays in their turn. I mean, I guess that's it isn't it (other than the obvious of knowing the coding, which most do not)? If the AI had opfire, it's turns wouldn't be as quick as they are for any of the other SP's. You sure don't see any red lines being drawn duriing their turn either.

So far as Imp is concerned, I was correct in stating that it is only SPWAW, or at least 'not' SPWW2, which will allow units to fire back (during enemy turn) when fired upon, despite the player reducing their range short of that unit, right? I don't think I have seen this game do that. Either way has it's advantages.

[Charles22]

Originally Posted by Imp

Charles do not take this as gospel as never realy thought about.

As have op filter dont Y key so much but if they can see there attacker they will fire back & there range is reset to that range.

When a unit turns to you & does not fire I think it has a good idea where you are & will likely see you if you fire another shot, its now looking in your general area.

Re facing the other way never thought about but do you not think this represents getting your head down & seeking cover as have lost intrest in engaging the enemy?

I'm not too sure about this Imp, so I asked DRG. I can tell you that part of the reaction delay you are seeing has to do with spotting the unit first, no matter if you are correct or not.

Let's assume you're right for a minute. Perhaps it's different for infantry, but why is it that I will fire at enemy infantry, and maybe they will return fire, but only two or more firings later often enough, which of course means my infantry is spotted by a great many units close to my target, but yet when I fire on aonther unit I go through the same routine of return fire taking that same length? If it were a matter of it simply being that seen units are fired upon, despite range too short for that (through some form of filtering), when they are fired upon, you wouldn't think there would be a delay in reacting. I don't get it. because sometimes it does seem they return fire immediately.

Oh, at least it would work this way in SPWAW. The reason they sometimes respond immediately, to even a beforehand unfiring hidden unit, is because their range had been increased due to their returning fire on a unit that fired upon them from a distance exceeeding what they had before.

Man I have been thinking too much today.

[Imp]

Do not quite understand what you mean but lets say
unit fired on turns to look in area so has a good chance of spotting next shot.

now fired on again suppresed more so does not spot

next fire does but due to suppresion now has reduced number of shots to return fire.

I could be imagining it but its great there is a very minor delay passing on info rather than silly SPWAW every one opens up.

Seems to me often when he spots & returns fire other units not in contact take a while longer to react, think of your tanks in overwatch for instance.

This simulates things like a formation breaking cover simultaniosly pretty well considering you move units individually. Its also another advantage you have over the AI as it only manages by fluke.

Personnel prefrence I think WW2 MBT simulate pretty well you seem to want SPWAW RTS instant awareness.

Note the dealy is realy to small but has to be because when its your turn you have the eye of God.

This is my last on subject & nit picking if you like SPWAW play dont compare it.My view though is it does a couple of things nicely but is generally much more gamey so I have not played it since discovering the Camo games.

This is not RTS you have overall control but only limited control over indivudual units. More control & its just a game unexpected things happen in combat & as I stated earlier the routines controlling units are far superior in these games

[DRG]

My point was, choosing to opfire or not is also a "cheat" against the AI because the AI most definitely does not have the ability to choose between firing or not in any way close to the way a human player would make that decision



Don

[Charles22]

Originally Posted by Imp

Do not quite understand what you mean but lets say
unit fired on turns to look in area so has a good chance of spotting next shot.

now fired on again suppresed more so does not spot

next fire does but due to suppresion now has reduced number of shots to return fire.

I could be imagining it but its great there is a very minor delay passing on info rather than silly SPWAW every one opens up.

Seems to me often when he spots & returns fire other units not in contact take a while longer to react, think of your tanks in overwatch for instance.

This simulates things like a formation breaking cover simultaniosly pretty well considering you move units individually. Its also another advantage you have over the AI as it only manages by fluke.

Personnel prefrence I think WW2 MBT simulate pretty well you seem to want SPWAW RTS instant awareness.

Note the dealy is realy to small but has to be because when its your turn you have the eye of God.

This is my last on subject & nit picking if you like SPWAW play dont compare it.My view though is it does a couple of things nicely but is generally much more gamey so I have not played it since discovering the Camo games.

This is not RTS you have overall control but only limited control over indivudual units. More control & its just a game unexpected things happen in combat & as I stated earlier the routines controlling units are far superior in these games

I'm not sure if this message was meant for me or not, but if you thought I was in favor of SPWAW you're completely wrong. I was merely pointing out some differences, mostly to SPWAW's disadvantage. I told you that I thought you picked up this instant reaction for units with instant adjusted range, when fired upon, from SPWAW, not winSPWW2. I know for a fact SPWAW is that way, but I doubt winSPWW2 is. Both games have a reaction fire, but my memory is a little cloudy regarding SPWAW.

It seems to me that the only way the reaction fire "controlled by the human" occurred, was if the firing unit was within adjusted range and spotted. Where the range was lengthened automatically, was in the greater portion of the turn when the rest of the enemy actions occurred after the human-contorrled reaction has expired and the program controlled opfire. That was a teaching by the Matrix guys that helped you get around some of the poor units being selected for the human-controlled portion of the reaction opfire. Then I suppose the rule of targeted units automatically lengthening their range was a way to compensate for the player losing some of his units do to cutting their range so they wouldn't be selected to use the human opfire portion. I hope that makes sense to you.

Anyway, I don't think winSPWW2 has anything to do with targeted units getting their range automatically lengthened in order to react to being fired upon. As I said. I don't see my infantry doing that, but then it's harder to watch such things when the AI has it's turn, as opposed to firing on the AI. You can never be too sure what the AI range is. I was hoping somebody, besides you or I, would clarify this. It's been nice talking to you.