On Fighters

[Firemane]

Here is something that I fing a bit disturbing...

When hit by point defense weapons, a group of missiles die one at a time. On the other hand, when hit by a big weapon, fighters and sat Groups seem to die by the dozen instead of one by one.

This makes fighters a relatively poor choice on the cost effectiveness side, not to mention that you can find yourself doing a lot of transporting to keep up operational loses. Also, I found myself at least once in the unenviable situation of having to stop an offensive and run because of loses inflicted on my fighter strike forces by the Cue Kappa main ship batteries (Add a stream of colorfully irreverent words at the end of that sentence, please). So far I've read some Posts where a bunch of you guys seem to dislike relying on fighters, Is that your reason?

I like fighters. They are an offensive tool. But it spoils my "suspension of disbelief" to see the way they handle damage. So, should I stick with fighters or switch to something else? Are there any successfull fighter commanders out there who can advise me?

[Tampa_Gamer]

Several modders (including myself) have suggested to Aaron that he include a line item in the "Settings.txt" file (TRUE/FALSE) flag on whether main weapons are limited to "one hit/one kill" against units. If you feel the same way, go ahead and e-mail him.

[This message has been edited by Tampa_Gamer (edited 25 January 2001).]

[IBDoomed_Work]

I've actually always thought fighters were a bit overpowered. I use fighters to protect every planet. I have used a single carrier loaded with 200+ fighters to take out fleets of dreadnoughts. I find them to be low cost and very disposable. I usually stick 7-9 engines, 1 rocket pod and fill the rest with 2-3 cannons. How are you configuring your fighters?

IBD

[Mephisto]

Personally, I love fighters (ahem, who would have thought that, eh?).
I don't like the way damage is applied to them but they are quite effective anyway. Make sure to install 2 shields in a large fighter and they are deadly.
When you bring some capital ships with you the enemy is faced with a though decision: Fight the capital ships and be mauled by the fighters or shoot the fighters (quite hard) and get toasted by the capital ships.
No one said it would be an easy decision.

quote:

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Originally posted by Firemane:
Here is something that I fing a bit disturbing...

When hit by point defense weapons, a group of missiles die one at a time. On the other hand, when hit by a big weapon, fighters and sat Groups seem to die by the dozen instead of one by one.

This makes fighters a relatively poor choice on the cost effectiveness side, not to mention that you can find yourself doing a lot of transporting to keep up operational loses. Also, I found myself at least once in the unenviable situation of having to stop an offensive and run because of loses inflicted on my fighter strike forces by the Cue Kappa main ship batteries (Add a stream of colorfully irreverent words at the end of that sentence, please). So far I've read some Posts where a bunch of you guys seem to dislike relying on fighters, Is that your reason?

I like fighters. They are an offensive tool. But it spoils my "suspension of disbelief" to see the way they handle damage. So, should I stick with fighters or switch to something else? Are there any successfull fighter commanders out there who can advise me?

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[Seawolf]

Hasn't anyone heard of Escorts?! I build DD hulls with Shield and PDC only. they do wonders for Missile and Fighter hordes

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Seawolf on the prowl

[Firemane]

So far I've engaged only with medium fighters, which can only fit a relatively modest load. I have the heavies researched and I'll try them ASAP.

On the other hand, I feel a bit uncomfortable with their Kamikaze nature when compared to the bigger ships. I hate to send my troops to die. :P

I also discovered that it is a good tactic to send fast fighters tailing a missile barrage. It improves the odds a bit, though not for the fighters.

The point defense escorts sound like a great idea too. I assume that you place less PD in your "other" designs then? If so, how many? Isn't that approach more 'expensive' that building 'self-defending' ships?

[Tomgs]

You can build situational ships like point defence ships as needed then either refit them or mothball them after the threat is gone so its really not more expensive. I usually make point defence ships out of my latest and greatest ship size because after you kill all those fighters or destroy a lot of missles you get a big boost in your ships experience. Then just refit that ship to use your best beam weapon and it will rarely miss. So bring on your fighters and missle ships. It just helps me control the galaxy .

[WhiteHojo]

One hit/one kill - my god, if you hate being swarmed by 200+ fighters now imagine if that 1/1 ratio were in effect. small planets and small fleets would have NO chance vs. 1 carrier. To me it would be a little unbalancing but that is the beauty of SE4, if you don't like it, change it... in that spirit I wouldn't mind seeing Tampa's ratio option in the game (just be able to let me change it - I hate fighters.)

Mephisto gave me an idea - his 2 shields on large fighters.... add shield piercing PDs to the components. Maybe make the 1st be available when you get PD lvl 3 & the corresponding tech lvl for phased energy weapons? Don't know how hard that would be to Mod but it might be interesting (at least for multiplayer, cause I have'nt seen a AI fighter w/2 shields yet.)

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Character is best defined as that which you do when you believe nobody is watching.

[This message has been edited by WhiteHojo (edited 25 January 2001).]

[Baron Munchausen]

This is the same problem that came up on the SE IV Center forum BBs long ago, before the game was released. It's the old problem of which "style" of warfare is or should be better: carrier or capital ship? If you make fighters as powerful as they are today then a single fighter could carry a weapon that will destroy a ship with one hit. If you then get a carrier with 100+ fighters it's going to be invincible against almost any fleet without fighters to counter it. So, of course, people who prefer capital ships will complain that fighters are too powerful. If you try to balance fighters by giving PDC cannons a good chance to hit them and not giving them weapons that can destroy a ship with a single hit then fighter-oriented people complain that fighters are too wimpy. You can't win! I have to admit that I cannot think of a way to make it exciting and interesting for BOTH sides myself. Either you're a carrier partisan, and think fighters ought to take out even capital ships with ease, or you're a capital ship partisan and you think fighters should be swept away by powerful ships. <shrug>...

[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 25 January 2001).]

[WhiteHojo]

Baron, you have captured the essence of the debate in nutshell. I, obviously, am a Captital Ship kinda guy. Fighters to me should be relgated to shuttle duties between BattleCruisers and larger Ships of the Line.

In this spirit, I have a little question I need answered by the Mighty Modders out there. I have a new component (text of the 1st level component to be included later) which will aid me in the destruction of the Godless Hordes of Cowardly Fighters I seem to be incountering w/the new Sergetti and EA races. I haven't really seen a large need for this new component but why should that stop us. Anyway, my question is this: Is there anything or specifically any other file I should modify to allow my new toy to be available in game? The new component is a Shield Piercing Point-Defense Cannon (affectionately known as an SPPD) and requires 2 tech areas to build - PD weapons & Energy Stream Weapons. Do I have to modify any of the research or vehicle construction files to allow this new SPPD to be used by me or the AI?

So far I have just tweaked w/existing components and files and have not made any new component(my dreamed of MiniMineSweeper never panned out) so I am unfamiliar w/the proceedure.

And as always, any help would be appreciated.

Name := Shield Piercing Point - Defense Cannons I
Description := Small mobile Multi-Phasic energy beams on turrets which can penetrate normal shields and are used to target and destroy incoming fighters and seekers.
Pic Num := 66
Tonnage Space Taken := 20
Tonnage Structure := 20
Cost Minerals := 100
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base\Sat\WeapPlat
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None
General Group := Weapons
Family := 2005
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Point-Defense Weapons
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Tech Area Req 2 := Energy Stream Weapons
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Point-Defense
Ability 1 Descr :=
Ability 1 Val 1 := 0
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := Point-Defense
Weapon Target := Ftr\Sat\Seekers
Weapon Damage At Rng := 25 25 25 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Weapon Damage Type := Skips Normal Shields
Weapon Reload Rate := 1
Weapon Display Type := Torp
Weapon Display := 21
Weapon Modifier := 50
Weapon Sound := pointdef.wav
Weapon Family := 6




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Character is best defined as that which you do when you believe nobody is watching.