Do the regular Empires do Stellar Manipulation?

Sinapus · #1 January 25th, 2001, 09:27 PM

Does that 'Not Connected' AI state make the AI make new warp points if you play in a 'not all warp points connected' game and the empire runs out of room to expand? Or is that only when they lose contact with a human player?

Baron Munchausen · #2 January 25th, 2001, 09:52 PM

"Not Connected" is an AI state and is not related to warp point status. It's the "catch-all" just in case the checks for the other states fail. And yes, the AI is smart enough, at least in the latest patch, to recognize when it is isolated and build and use stellar manipulation -- once it manages to research it.

[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 25 January 2001).]

raynor · #3 January 25th, 2001, 10:07 PM

Playing a game where tech cost is medium and starting tech is low, has anyone ever seen the AI build ships with stellar manipulation components?

Do you remember how many turns into the game it was?

How about in games where you start with all technology?

Thanks!

Sinapus · #4 January 25th, 2001, 10:31 PM

I've stolen designs for Stellar Manipulation ships, but never seen one actually built.

They are very expensive. So maybe the AI doesn't have enough resources available.

Maybe they should throw in one level of each resource producer into the research tree at various points instead of way down near the bottom.

Has anyone played with not all WPs connected and gotten a visit from one race or another?

eagleton · #5 January 25th, 2001, 10:47 PM

I destroyed a destroyer of the Texrak (Neutrals!) with an open-warp-component! Looking at their system, they had obviously opened a warp point although they never leave their system!

raynor · #6 January 25th, 2001, 10:52 PM

It is good for hubris to confess stupidity now and again...

Typically, you pay around 15KT minerals per turn maintaining a ship with a stellar manipulation component. So, I thought I would be really smart and put one on a space station so I could get the 50% maintenance savings. Now... I will freely confess that I had, upon many occasions, tried to use my wormhole creators and gotten the message that I couldn't because I didn't have any movement remaining....

So, I had this plan to build a couple of base stations in one sector. The first space station would open the wormhole, and the second would close it. Thus, I could create a sort of DS9 effect.

So, I waited, and waited and waited. (I don't use the emergency build thing, of course). Finally, the wormhole closer came on line. Then, a couple of turns later the wormhole opener. Hurrah! I massed my ships to go through the wormhole. I powered up the stellar generators. I tried to open the wormhole. And it hiccuped! Sorry. No movement remaining.

UmberGryphon · #7 January 26th, 2001, 01:08 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Sinapus:
Has anyone played with not all WPs connected and gotten a visit from one race or another?

I played a "no warp points" starting map, and some of the AIs did research and build resonators. I think they built 'em too early, though--at least one of the AIs bankrupted itself paying upkeep on its resonator.

Str8_Gain · #8 January 28th, 2001, 07:38 AM

quote:
Originally posted by UmberGryphon:
I played a "no warp points" starting map, and some of the AIs did research and build resonators. I think they built 'em too early, though--at least one of the AIs bankrupted itself paying upkeep on its resonator.

When I first received SE4, I started by playing games with "no warp points connected". Depending on the size of planets you have in your starting system, it'll take quite a while to research up to Stellar Manipulation 3 (giving you the basic resonator (the 100ly one) and condenser to close points), in the neighborhood of 150-200 turns or so.

Basically, you can really hang yourself if you're not careful in how you use ships with stellar maipulation components (I typically begin with sticking either a resonator or a condenser on a frigate hull). What I had to do in order to avoid an economic crash is (turn 1)Send the ship to the edge of the system (assuming you don't click the "warp points can form anywhere in system" option) and open a warp point, (turn 2) head back to the shipyard and mothball the ship, to avoid being stuck with the enormous maintenance costs. Once I've build up a sufficient nest egg in resources, repeat as desired. I open warp points to every system I can reach with the particular class of resonator, then mothball the ship until I colonize as much as I profitably can (those monolith facilities really help on those sweet planets with lots of resources to extract).

At that rate, it takes quite a while before I can actually afford to keep my ships operating full time. Typically, I make a group of four ships (one with a resonator, one with a condenser, a ship with a repair bay, and a cloaked recon vessel with the best sensors and scanners I can afford). I typically keep two or three of these Groups active at most during the game against AIs.

Given my personal experience, I can see why AIs never seem to break out of their starting systems, since the ships just cost too bloody much when you're confined to the resources of a single star system. And they never seem to bother with Atmospheric Modification Plants to increase the number of facilities available on their planets, which you need (especially research facilties if you want to get the jump on everyone else).

In short, when it comes to these games, I get the tech first, and then either wipe out the AIs I come across, or, easier yet, just close the warp point and shut them out of the rest of the galaxy entirely until I'm ready to deal with them. Not very challenging at all, although I can build my empire unmolested.

Atrocities · #9 January 28th, 2001, 07:59 AM

From what I have seen, the AI empires do not do stellar at all. They research it, but do not use it.

Now, on a game with no warp points, I have seen them use this technology. And brother do they ever use it.

But, on a regular game, I have never seen the AI use this technology.

Tomgs · #10 January 28th, 2001, 08:03 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Str8_Gain:
What I had to do in order to avoid an economic crash is (turn 1)Send the ship to the edge of the system (assuming you don't click the "warp points can form anywhere in system" option) and open a warp point, (turn 2) head back to the shipyard and mothball the ship, to avoid being stuck with the enormous maintenance costs

Even if you don't click the "warp point can form anywhere" when you use stellar manipulation to create warp point you can still create them anywhere. That just means if there are warp point in the set-up they will only be placed on the edges. The other end of the warp point will still be on an edge of that system. I don't know what happens to the other end if "warp point can form anywhere" is selected because I have never tried that. Maybe then they will end up randomly placed in the target system?