Simultaneous Games

[couslee]

Originally posted by capnq:
You can cancel any previously given order with the Clear Orders command (red circle & slash icon, hotkey Delete).

But that does not work when the order is not completed. I do use that in this current simultaneous game (complete it mulligan style), but in turn based it can be a PITA. Try it, you'll see.

[Krsqk]

In turn based if you select a ship or fleet and click on the "warp" button, but remembered you forgot to check something, you can cancel the "select location" by clicking on a non-worm hole sector. If you click on "move to" and have the same realization, you can cancel that by clicking on the ship again. This does NOT work in Simultaneous games.

Because of this, I always use the Transfer Cargo button. There are no side effects to using this (except having to close the window that opens up).

[Fyron]

Click a different button then, and SE4 will forget that you clicked move to.

[couslee]

Thanks Fyron, that'll do trick. .

However, I doubt I will be getting into any PBW games. I am sick and tired of watching my fleets do stupid **** in combat. I have been trying a lot of different strategies, with a large amount of varied settings for damage, firing and such. I make a change, and that fixes one thing, and they go and do something else that is just as stupid. It is killing the fun in game for me, and frankly, right now I doubt I could care less about SEIV MP, if it means I have to use strategic combat. I enjoy the game, and enjoy tactical combat. Sure, I wish the AI was better at it, but in strategic combat all my losses have been because the ships go and do stupid things. Yet the AI does the things I would do in tactical. I can't figure out the right settings for what I want the ships to do. Even if I found the right setting for a paticular circumstance, that setting may not be the best for all my other ship not involved in that one combat. If I could make specific strategic setting PER SHIP, it would be a different story, but this "good for one is good for all" stinks. imnsho.

Maybe I will give simultaneous games another chance in a few months, if I am still playing SEIV.

Thanks for all the help you guys gave, it is appreciated.

[tbontob]

Couslee, I hear your complaint.

I feel we are not given the means to understand how a particular strategy works. Worse, if we want to create a new strategy, we are given little information on how to create an effective one.

Maybe with a lot of trial and error, we can achieve some level of proficiency in it. But, who wants to spends months trying out all the different permutations and combinations?

Much better if MM would tell us what each part of the strategy menu does and how one part is affected by the other parts and how the other parts are affected by it.

Then it would be fun to construct different strategies to cope with different situations.

But all we have is this strange silence.

[couslee]

Originally posted by tbontob:
Maybe with a lot of trial and error, we can achieve some level of proficiency in it. But, who wants to spends months trying out all the different permutations and combinations?

Exactly. I have been trying a lot of trial and error, which can be frustrating enough, but trying that in ones first simultaneous game is even more irritating. Each trial (read reload game) has the added irritation of having to redo a bunch of other crap too. I will give strategic more trial and error testing, but in turn based mode another time. Right now tho, I am going to delete the current game, and start a new one and PLAY it, and save all this testing for another day.

Analysis paralysis is a horrid thing indeed.

[Fyron]

But all we have is this strange silence.

What strange silence? Aaron doesn't browse this forum. Have you tried emailing him about it? I strongly suspect he would be willing to answer your questions.

[PvK]

Use the simulator to investigate strategies, not an actual game you're trying to play.

To blockade, use a strategy set with "don't target types" set to true for Planets, and Seekers Targetted on Self and Seekers Targetted on Others. This will allow your fleet to attack defenses without firing on the planet.

To have ships use individual strategies, use a fleet strategy with ships set to Break Formation - they will then use their own design-specific strategies.

To have a specific ship use a different strategy from the one for its design, put it in its own fleet, with that fleet set to not break formation.

PvK

[Fyron]

The simulator is very, very bad. Do not trust it. It is better to setup a test game where you do real strategic combat. The simulator often gives incorrect results.

[SamuraiProgrammer]

Couslee,

I feel your pain concerning the seemingly random acts of violence (or non violence as the case may be) of the AI that controls combat in multi player games.

---Time Out---

After reading what I wrote and seeing how harsh it may sound, I have inserted this to say "Everything that follows is meant to be helpful and none of it is meant to combative or sarcastic." The written word is soooo different from conversation where body language can soften remarks.

---End Time Out---

I would make this observation, though. "What is fair for the goose is fair for the gander." In other words, this problem is faced by all of those who play multiplayer.

I would also make the following observation. The true art of strategic command involves trying to get your underlings to do what you want. Having a great plan is not always enough. Finding the right set of orders that will allow your underlings to exert intelligent influence on their actions in light of a changing situation while following your orders when it is still right has been the bane of supreme commanders for all of history. Cases in point... McClellan (American Civil War), Patton (WWII), MacArthur (Korea).

I wonder if Swartzkopf considered taking Baghdad when he was ordered to stop?

Learning how to tweak the strategies to get them to do what you want is part of the multiplayer game. I personally always play with simultaneous movement. EVEN if I am playing a single player game. The two ways of playing are very different.

Trying to get all of your assets in the same place at the right time can be frustrating. One trick I have learned is to send some ships a box or two in the wrong direction before sending them where I want them. This allows ships that are a little further away to catch up. Then for the Last half (or so) of the turn, they move together and can support each other.

I have also learned to play with the strategies. You may find the most useful time to be spent on the screen that dictates the amount of damage that should be dealt to a target before ceasing to fire.

Also, if you are using Missile craft to soften planets, you will get surprises because the ships consider a cease fire when the damage gets done. They do not consider how much damage is likely to be done by the missiles that are on the way. Therefore the following happens:

1. Fire Salvo 1
2. Fire Salvo 2
3. Salvo 1 hits
4. Fire Salvo 3
5. Salvo 2 hits
6. Stop firing because another salvo will kill the planet.
7. Salvo 3 hits, planet is destroyed.

This is aggravating to be sure, but all of the players are faced with the same problem.

I encourage you to continue to work on this part of the game. It is, IMHO, the best part. The AI is given artificial bonuses to make it challenging. Humans make the best opponents.

I have been playing multiplayer with a closed group of friends and am about to 'take my lumps' against the experts here. I am sure that I will be at the bottom of the victory list for a while, but think how much fun it will be to improve! These locals had better watch out!

Hang in there, Couslee. It is a bumpy road, but one worth travelling.

Sincerely

Samura Programmer