PBW - Newbie Galactic Combat II Crisis Forum.

[Ruatha]

well. I thought you where a good player, we where all newbies!

As to alot of rules. I belive that we got advanced tech way to early in NGC2. And I really like the exploring and diplomacy parts. I belive that our Central Powers alliance would have been to powerful if it hadn't been for the FMA allaince. I do belive we worked to good together and would have dominated (bragging a bit) and that wouldn't have been as fun as struggling to the top!
I lost my only completed PBW game but it was real fun anyway.

I'll mail you my future synopsis later tonight, what I have planned etc. I was thinking of posting it as the end to my story but if you'll continue writing so will I .
Now we only have to trick Tbontob into it aswell.
Should I continue running the turns with the Ai controlling ALL empires, and then mail you the the turn?
Then we will just have the events to write about but no way to actually control them, might be interesting!

[ March 16, 2003, 16:10: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[tbontob]

So I need to be tricked into playing? I’ll take that as it was intended…a complement.

I really would like to play another game hosted by Ruatha. From what I can gather, it has been a learning experience for him. It certainly has been for me.

I like the specific description of the settings. And while I may prefer some of them be set differently, I could live with most of them.

But one I do have a problem with.

At the beginning of the NGC game, I established a good relationship with Winters. We established a T & R treaty and traded numerous tech until just prior to turn 2402.0, at which time he abruptly quit the game. Our arrangement up till then was to trade tech of equal value.

He was a very inexperienced player and I kind of took him under my wing. Talk of the blind leading the blind! I had just entered the PBW scene myself.

My impression is that he was very young and susceptible to harassment. I suspect, Stalin saw/felt that too. Even though I suggested to Winters to take mines as a trade, he choose something else from my inventory and this would haunt him a few turns later when Stalin would rummage through his systems.

Just previously, Stalin tried to rummage through my systems. Asking him to get out didn’t work. Telling him in no uncertain terms did. I was prepared to go to war if he continued. And he knew it.

He then turned his attentions to Winters and his incursions severely unhinged Winters. He had no protection at all (no military ships, WP’s etc), having directed his resources towards the growth of his Empire. My giving him mines, his producing the mines and launching them would have taken a number of turns which he felt he didn’t have.

Stalin also pressured him to agree to a military alliance (I only had a T & R). He also pressured Winters to give him some of his colonists. I know all this this because Winters and I had a flurry of e-mails about his problem (about 30).

I couldn’t help Winters as I didn’t have the ships to contest Stalin who was maxed out on aggressiveness and defensiveness (with Berzerker) and mine was set at 100%/Scientists.

Suddenly Winters just quit. And although he claimed another reason, I feel certain the real reason was he was not able to cope with Stalin demands.

Now I find out that Stalin and the replacement for Winters are friends with both living in Russia.

It is most likely that Stalin would ask a player to join who was sympathetic to him. That being the case, there was probably nothing I could do to convince the replacement player to prefer an alliance with me in preference to Stalin. And I did try.

The result was, I was blockaded for something like 40 turns (give or take a turn or two). A horrible situation but I stuck it out.

What did I learn? Beg, bribe, do anything to get a friend of mine to replace a player who leaves. Maybe undertake to reciprocate to help the friend when a player leaves one of his games. Better that than to risk being blockaded
again. Or risk having a powerful alliance on my flank.

Not a good thing, I think you will agree. Because then my friend and I can harass other players.

So, IMO there is a major difference between a new player and replacement players.

New players take the luck of the draw and friends can be scattered all over the map leaving them vulnerable to attack. Replacement players are able to group themselves and as a group can harass other players to quit and if they refuse to quit (like me), co-ordinate their resources to attack that player.

This is a potential area of abuse and I feel I was on the receiving end of it with Stalin. I made numerous attempts to communicate with Winters replacement but only received silence as a response.

How to solve it? One way is to have the AI play the replacement player, maxed out to its best ability. Definitely not as interesting as a human replacement player, but it will avoid this type of abuse.

If I had a choice between selecting having an AI who may or may not be antagonist towards me and an antagonistic player allied with another antagonistic player, I would definitely select the former.

If I hadn’t been attacked and then blockaded from the other players for 40 turns by a powerful alliance, I wouldn’t feel so strongly about the potential abuse.

However, I don’t want to ask a friend to take over an empire on my flank just so I can feel more secure. That doesn’t seem right or ethical. But not doing so means I am exposed to the very real risk of having a powerful alliance on my flank.

I would rather play a game where if a player leaves, the empire is taken over by an AI. Then it is up to the AI to decide whether I be friend or foe.

[CaptRR]

Well I started a new PBW game, its a smaller Quadrant so the pace should be faster. Its also using the Proportions mod, so when people assult those planets it should get quite interesting.

I invite everyone who was in NGC2 to join, except the ones from the CCCP

I also want to ask for a backup host, just in case somthing happens and I'm unable continue play (hint... rutha...hint..hint).

None the less, the name of the game is NGC: Proportions

[Ruatha]

Hmm. Proportions mod... Need to look into that.
The only mod I've used is FQM DL and SEIV Committe mods.

What does proportions do?

[ March 16, 2003, 20:45: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[CaptRR]

Originally posted by Ruatha:
Hmm. Proportions mod... Need to look into that.
The only mod I've used is FQM DL and SEIV Committe mods.

What does proportions do?

From what I can tell it adds some Newtion physiscs of a sort. Basicly you can load up a ship with Engines to make it really fast, but every weapon you add slows it down.

Also it looks like planets are alot harder to kill in proportions, and home worlds play a much bigger part. Plus you can't transport insanely huge amounts of population, and population grows much slower. So you will tend to have your home worlds, and then Colonies that could not survive without the Home Worlds. Then again killing a home world is like attacking fortress. Plan to loose alot of ships in planetary assults.

[Ruatha]

Count me in then.

[tbontob]

CaptRR

I'd be interested in joining too.

Always wanted to try proportions.

Need to ask: What is the policy on replacement players?

[CaptRR]

Originally posted by tbontob:
CaptRR

I'd be interested in joining too.

Always wanted to try proportions.

Need to ask: What is the policy on replacement players?

Well the AI sucks with Proportions(at least from what I heard and seen). Dropping players is almost a given considering the length of the game. If someone drops for say personal reasons I'll search for a replacement player.

If they leave becouse of in game reasons, I think we should let the AI finish it off. Basicly we will have to take it on a case by case basis, and I'll put it before all the players to decide the course of action when it happens.

[Geckomlis]

Been itching to try Proportions on PBW. I am in too - if CaptRR will turn events off? I really hate events.

I am sad to see NGC2 go down also. It was my first PBW game. RIP.

Gecko

[tbontob]

Originally posted by CaptRR:

quote:

---

Originally posted by tbontob:
CaptRR

I'd be interested in joining too.

Always wanted to try proportions.

Need to ask: What is the policy on replacement players?

Well the AI sucks with Proportions(at least from what I heard and seen). Dropping players is almost a given considering the length of the game. If someone drops for say personal reasons I'll search for a replacement player.

If they leave becouse of in game reasons, I think we should let the AI finish it off. Basicly we will have to take it on a case by case basis, and I'll put it before all the players to decide the course of action when it happens.

---

I am still wrestling whether to join or not.

On the plus side. I admire Ruatha's courage to call what was happening in the game. And to take what must have been a very hard step of cancelling it. It would have been easy to let things slide and nobody would have been the wiser.

So, IMO, the fact that Ruatha is a co-host or subsidiary host is a definite plus. If things are not right, I feel confident he will call it.

Secondly, a part of my storyline of the in-game stories can still continue...the escapades of Eston. Basically, that storyline was not dependant on what happened in the game. One or two details may have to be changed, but that can be declared at the beginning of the next installment.

That does, of course, assume we are going to have in-game stories.

What do you guys think?

Finally we come to replacement players.

I understand the TDM mod is a very good mod for AI's. I am guessing there is no easy way to combine the TDM mod and Proportions in the game.

Historically, replacement players are not easy to get. I have the impression that most if not all hosts will accept any warm body or what appears to be a warm body. This is understandable since asking for more details takes time. And time is not what the host has since traditionally the game must go on. And the more game turns, the more injury to the abandoned empire and the empires around it.

So, maybe it would be appropriate to have an understanding that the game would be "held" until a suitable replacement player is found.

This way appropriate questions can be asked to have some assurance that
a) cheating will not take place (such as 1 player playing two or more empires)
b) abuse will not take place (such as a player and a replacement player are close friends with an understanding of mutual support to the exclusion of others).

My feeling is if a person must cheat to win, the game is not worth playing.

Also, my feeling is if the rules are used in such a way to give a player an unnatural advantage (abuse), then the game is not worth playing.