OT: Starship size comparisons 1 pixel per meter

[Andrés]

Posted by dogscoff (Member # 1372) on May 06, 2003, 16:24:

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/holocaust.html

Here's the Endor link. I don't think you can argue against this kind of research Andres, but if you want to try I'll be listening with interest.

I like the Turbolaser Commentaries and I think they are great. I'd only embarrass myself if I tried to discuss that from a scientific pov.
According to the expanded universe there were many shooting stars that night, maybe a few pieces survived long enough to hit the ground (or trees), but that was it. No ecological disaster and no need to take any actions to prevent it.
As Gwaihir said

AFAIK, and as far as the pretty extensive research this fellow carried out states, there is no canon explanation of how Endor survived, it just *did.*

It may not be what *should have* happened, but starwars is not theoretical science, it's science fiction, literature. What happened is what's written and accepted, not what's most likely.
The star wars universe is quite scientifically consistent and errors like this one are strange.
The expanded universe seems to fix errors and solidify evidence rather than create more errors and inconsistencies. For example the "parsecs" mistake in ANH.
Marvel Comics series and WEG portrayed events that took place in Endor after ROTJ and no climatical disaster was ever mentioned.
It is discussed if those sources are official part of the timeline, but some of those events are mentioned in the official page: http://www.starwars.com/databank/species/ewok/eu.html
And although it isnt directly contradicted, a major event such as the extintion or evacuation of the Ewok race should have been mentioned in stories such as "Truce at Bakura" (note to self add ssi-ruuk to my shipsets to do list) taking place in that time.

***************

Posted by Aloofi (Member # 3719) on May 06, 2003, 14:29:

Yeah, but in SE4 the tonnage is in kilotons, not plain tons.
So that means that an unmodded Cruiser have 500 000 tonns.
Couldn't it be 500 meters long?

Right, but 500,000 tons is still pretty small among sci-fi ships.
Yeah, but the tonnage of most Trek and B5 ships is still pretty large even if you divide it by 1000 to convert tons into kilo-tons. Many close or beyond the 65,000 kT limit for modded ships.

Sure you could have a 500m long cruiser.
I've made some calculations to put numbers to "linear ships".
Using a density of 0.00035 kT/m3, as I did for my other other estimations, your 500m long cruiser would be 500m x 53.45m x 53.45m.
It's width and height would be almost 1/9th its lenght what is elongated but not so crazy.
Of course that your escort would be 150x53x53m and your dreadnought 1000x53x53m.

***************

Originally posted by Gwaihir:
No, Grand Moff Tarkin would have been dead, cause clearly that attacking fleet is no threat. I'm just going to sit with my finger on the trigger cause you're just making that up about the explosions and stuff. Yessiree, no danger here!

But he would be right! That is no danger for the Death Star!
No planetary defense fleet would be able to face a 3e20 kT baseship in conventional battle.
And without a specially programmed torpedo lauched from a fighter that manages to get close enough and shoot it through the exaust port, wouldn't be able to exploit its Achiles heel and blow up the main reactor either.

I promise I'll get back to work in the Sci-Fi X-over Mod or a SW-Mod 2 soon.

Here's the superlaser:
Name := Superlaser Mk II
Description := Massive sized laser strong enough to overcome the strongest planetary shields and destroy worlds.
Pic Num := 347
Tonnage Space Taken := 20000
Tonnage Structure := 20000
Cost Minerals := 50000
Cost Organics := 100
Cost Radioactives := 30000
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base
Supply Amount Used := 1500
Restrictions := One Per Vehicle
General Group := Weapons
Family := 25008
Roman Numeral := 2
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Superlasers
Tech Level Req 1 := 2
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Destroy Planet Size
Ability 1 Descr := Can destroy a huge sized planet. It's not destroyed on use.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 5
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := Point-Defense
Weapon Target := Ships\Planets
Weapon Damage At Rng := 50000 50000 50000 50000 50000 50000 50000 50000 50000 50000 50000 50000 50000 50000 50000 0 0 0 0 0
Weapon Damage Type := Normal
Weapon Reload Rate := 8
Weapon Display Type := Beam
Weapon Display := 12
Weapon Modifier := 0
Weapon Sound := EMPIRELASER.WAV
Weapon Family := 2440

[dogscoff]

Could a component be given weapons and stellar manipulation qualitiers, so that in combat you can use it as a weapon and toast the defences, then out of combat use it as a planet-buster to reduce the remains of the colony to rubble?

BTW, 13000 damage points wouldn't even breach the shields of your average proportions homeworld- Let alone the hundreds of weapons platforms and thousands of troops to deal with once the shileds are down.

[ May 07, 2003, 12:30: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

[Scipio]

Originally posted by chewy027:
If my memory serves me, the Eclipse SSD was the cloned Emperor Palpatine's new flagship in the Dark Empire comic book series. I think it was in Dark Empire II to be exact. I also remeber it being bigger then the comparison pic shows.

I visited some sites, linked on the first flash site. And read a lot (I should have spend my time in my books instead ) and found that the eclipse is just the right scale there, a bit shorter than a SSD (11-13 km) but more massive, but who cares about this comic ships, I dont like them, they are not real Star Wars in my oppionion.
But I am surprised the D`deridex is so large, even as large as an ISD (But I guess with less mass) and generally the ISD is much more smaller in comparison than I guessed...

[Loser]

Posted by dogscoff (Member # 1372) on May 06, 2003, 16:24:

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/holocaust.html

Here's the Endor link. I don't think you can argue against this kind of research Andres, but if you want to try I'll be listening with interest.

That's what glassing is like, I think.

[PvK]

Is there a way to get the "It's not destroyed on use." part to actually work?

PvK

[quote]Originally posted by Andres:

...
Here's the superlaser:
Name := Superlaser Mk II
Description := Massive sized laser strong enough to overcome the strongest planetary shields and destroy worlds.
Pic Num := 347
Tonnage Space Taken := 20000
Tonnage Structure := 20000
Cost Minerals := 50000
Cost Organics := 100
Cost Radioactives := 30000
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base
Supply Amount Used := 1500
Restrictions := One Per Vehicle
General Group := Weapons
Family := 25008
Roman Numeral := 2
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Superlasers
Tech Level Req 1 := 2
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Destroy Planet Size
Ability 1 Descr := Can destroy a huge sized planet. It's not destroyed on use.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 5
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := Point-Defense
Weapon Target := Ships\Planets
Weapon Damage At Rng := 50000 50000 50000 50000 50000 50000 50000 50000 50000 50000 50000 50000 50000 50000 50000 0 0 0 0 0
Weapon Damage Type := Normal
Weapon Reload Rate := 8
Weapon Display Type := Beam
Weapon Display := 12
Weapon Modifier := 0
Weapon Sound := EMPIRELASER.WAV
Weapon Family := 2440

[Phoenix-D]

Why shouldn't it work? The "destroyed on use" part of stellar manip components is a seperate ability.

[PvK]

I didn't remember that. Thanks.

[PvK]

It's been updated. Now there are several scales.

I think their new Death Stars are off - at least one of them. I don't think there was that much difference between the two.

And, their King Kong is still too small.

But it's a great site! I'm glad to see they are still adding stuff.

PvK

Originally posted by Kamog:
Hey, check out this page which has drawings of Star Trek, Star Wars, and Babylon 5 ships to scale, compared to real ships and buildings. There's the Empire State Building, Eiffel Tower, Statue of Liberty, etc compared to Godzilla, Battlestar Galactica, Galaxy Class Starship, Omega Class Destroyer, Star Wars Space Slug, etc.

Each drawing is scaled to 1 pixel = 1 meter.
http://mirror.wolffelaar.nl/zardalu.sytes.net/

[David E. Gervais]

so I guess size does matter

[PvK]

Yep. Actually though, I was looking at some stills of the original King Kong film, and the scale there looked about right at 12.5m for Kong. However for the 1970's Kong, or the Kong vs. Godzilla films, Kong is a lot bigger. That's the difficulty with a site like that - much SF isn't very consistent in its sizes. I also looked at the site that has the Ewok genocide analysis and it looks like the death star sizes may not be much off either.

Although, if the first Death Star was only 160 km, and the second Death Star was 800 km, that's... interesting. Seems like if you have the materials to make an 800 km deathstar, and no one else is making deathstars, and a 160 km deathstar is enough to wipe out planets and be unkillable except by er, super-heroics, then they might be wiser to build a whole fleet of 160 km deathstars, or just one deathstar, and thousands of star destroyers. ISD's are still the coolest, anyway, and plenty big.

PvK