A complete newbie's questions...

[deccan]

Hello,

Just to introduce myself a bit, I'm a complete newbie player, a MOO3 defector. Ordered SEIV Gold Online and received it a couple of weeks ago. This game just rocks by the way.

I've been playing with the Proportions mod (because I just like long, slow games) and I have some questions:

1) Does anyone else think that PD is incredibly powerful? I keep wishing that I could make it my main weapon and hit ships with it.

2) Why does everyone seem to think that torpedoes suck? They seem alright to me, stat-wise. (Yes, I know about the reload rate.) Am I missing something else?

3) How do I keep my fighters from running out of ammo in mid-battle? If I max them out on engines, they run far, far ahead of my main fleet. I can't add supply storage components to them. Use less weapons and more armor on them?

4) What the heck are meson bLasters for? They seem to suck to me.

5) I need some suggestions for ship designs. I notice that the AI doesn't tend to put supply components in combat vessels, but then they tend not to travel very far. Is it better to put supply components on every ship that needs to travel to attack the enemy (uses up precious space that could go towards weapons and armor) or is it better to build specialized supply tankers (game's "sharing of supplies evenly among all ships in a fleet" seems very inefficient)?

6) What makes "Neutral" dispositioned races happy? I find that if I pick "Peaceful" races, I get keep them on "Happy" and "Jubilant" most of the time. However, if I pick "Neutral", they spend most of their time on "Indifferent".

7) I find that once an AI declares war on me, I can't seem to end it, even if they are "Brotherly" to me and no one actually engages in combat for ages and ages.

8) How do tech trades work? The AI keeps giving me tech that I have already.

Sorry, if some of my questions seem silly. I haven't really played all that much yet and I'm nowhere near to completing a game.

[Ragnarok]

Edit: Oh shoot, I didn't catch that you were using Proportions Mod. Some of my answers may not apply then. If one of the Proportions players wants to correct me in areas feel free.

Originally posted by deccan:
1) Does anyone else think that PD is incredibly powerful? I keep wishing that I could make it my main weapon and hit ships with it.

I do not believe it is too powerful. Just wait until you meet a large (150+) stack of fighters and 100 sats, then you won't mind having powerful PD.

2) Why does everyone seem to think that torpedoes suck? They seem alright to me, stat-wise. (Yes, I know about the reload rate.) Am I missing something else?

Reload rate is the main downside of torps. Some mods make using torps more benificial however.(I don't know which mods but I know some do)

Also, damage to weight ratio is taken into consideration. Take for example the Quantum Torps vs. Phased Polaron Beams. With Large mount the Quantum Torps take up 80kt of space of a ship, do 300 damage to range 6 with a reload of 2. PPB however, take up only 60kt of space, do 150 damage out to range 6 (300 damage in two turns) plus they skip normal shields. Thus making PPBs more efficient. This is just one example.

3) How do I keep my fighters from running out of ammo in mid-battle? If I max them out on engines, they run far, far ahead of my main fleet. I can't add supply storage components to them. Use less weapons and more armor on them?

I don't know about this one. I'm not the best with Fighters.

4) What the heck are meson bLasters for? They seem to suck to me.

They sort of do suck. Not very many people use them except for RP purposes.

5) Is it better to put supply components on every ship that needs to travel to attack the enemy (uses up precious space that could go towards weapons and armor) or is it better to build specialized supply tankers (game's "sharing of supplies evenly among all ships in a fleet" seems very inefficient)?

Either way works. It has been mentioned before that you want at least 1 or 2 supply storage on each warship that you have. But I would suggest having a few supply tankers in your fleets as well to resupply the fleet once the battle is over. Or just go straight for the QR and have unlimited supplies no matter what.

6) What makes "Neutral" dispositioned races happy? I find that if I pick "Peaceful" races, I get keep them on "Happy" and "Jubilant" most of the time. However, if I pick "Neutral", they spend most of their time on "Indifferent".

Never pick Neutral, it is a pain in the arse to keep them happy. Any treaty, war, new alien race, alien ships in your system will make them very unhappy and possibly cause riots ruining your empire. Peaceful is the easiest to keep happy and probably the best happiness type to take at the beginning of a game.

7) I find that once an AI declares war on me, I can't seem to end it, even if they are "Brotherly" to me and no one actually engages in combat for ages and ages.

I believe in the AI_Settings.txt file for that particular AI is a line that makes it not accept any treaties for X amount of turns after the Last battle with you. Just don't fight with them and they will eventually turn around and allie with you once more.

8) How do tech trades work? The AI keeps giving me tech that I have already.

I would explain this one but I'm not very good at explaining tech trades so I'll let someone else handle it.

Sorry, if some of my questions seem silly. I haven't really played all that much yet and I'm nowhere near to completing a game.

NO question is silly, we've all asked them and the only stupid question is one that doesn't get asked. Ask here and we shall answer without hesitation. Check out the FAQ at the top of this forum, that will help you ALOT in your games.

Oh, and welcome to the forum! I hope I have helped you and you enjoy your stay here.

[ June 03, 2003, 00:05: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

[Fyron]

Either way works. It has been mentioned before that you want at least 1 or 2 supply storage on each warship that you have. But I would suggest having a few supply tankers in your fleets as well to resupply the fleet once the battle is over.

Those suggestions never excluded having resupply ships with lots of solar collectors on them.

8) How do tech trades work? The AI keeps giving me tech that I have already.

Each tech offered is one level of that tech area. You can not be given more levels of a tech than the offering player possesses. If I have APB 5, I can not give you APB 6. If you have APB 2, me offering you one level of APB would bring you up to 3. If you have 3, then me offering you a level brings you up to 4. If you have 2, and I offer you two levels, that would bring you up to 4. If you have 4 (and I still have 5) and I offer you 2 levels, you would only be able to go up to 5. The extra level is wasted in this case. Not knowing directly what tech levels your opponent has is not only realistic, but it makes the game more fun by providing many more RP opportunities (mostly in MP games ).

[ June 03, 2003, 00:12: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[deccan]

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
They sort of do suck. Not very many people use them except for RP purposes.

FYI, I do tend to RP more than chase for max efficiency all the time. Still, extreme imbalances annoy me. Same goes for the "Neutral" thing. I wanted to RP a Romulan-type empire, no traffic with other empires, god-like spying abilities, quick tech to cloaking devices etc., but the weakness of having a "Neutral" disposition is a real killer.

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
Either way works. It has been mentioned before that you want at least 1 or 2 supply storage on each warship that you have. But I would suggest having a few supply tankers in your fleets as well to resupply the fleet once the battle is over. Or just go straight for the QR and have unlimited supplies no matter what.

I would prefer to use supply tankers but the way resupplying works is so crude and inefficient. I wish resupply ships could be given a "Resupply" ability so that they can transfer set amounts to supply to target ships. SEV maybe.

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
Oh, and welcome to the forum! I hope I have helped you and you enjoy your stay here.

Thanks!

[PvK]

Originally posted by Ragnarok:

quote:

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Originally posted by deccan:
1) Does anyone else think that PD is incredibly powerful? I keep wishing that I could make it my main weapon and hit ships with it.

I do not believe it is too powerful. Just wait until you meet a large (150+) stack of fighters and 100 sats, then you won't mind having powerful PD.

---

It is also much less accurate than in the unmodded game, where PD is probably way too effective. Lots of fighters or seekers or drones (or all of three) though, will call for lots of PD, especially in Proportions.

If I ever do a Proportion 3.0, I may make it less accurate against seekers, though. There was no way to make seekers harder to hit in SE4 when I designed the values, so I did what I could and still keep the balance I wanted with other weapons and target types.

quote:

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2) Why does everyone seem to think that torpedoes suck? They seem alright to me, stat-wise. (Yes, I know about the reload rate.) Am I missing something else?

Reload rate is the main downside of torps. Some mods make using torps more benificial however.(I don't know which mods but I know some do)

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Proportions is one of the mods that improves the effectiveness of torpedoes. They are good weapons in Proportions, against ships.

quote:

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3) How do I keep my fighters from running out of ammo in mid-battle? If I max them out on engines, they run far, far ahead of my main fleet. I can't add supply storage components to them. Use less weapons and more armor on them?

---

There are several fighter designs possible, as you've seen. I don't usually see them running out of supplies, but I tend to give them more engines and let them outrun the fleet. I tend to design fighters in two varieties - superiority fighters, which are supposed to intercept enemy fighters, and anti-ship or anti-planet bombers. In any case, I usually try to use the fighters to protect my ships, so I'm content for them to outrun the ships. More armor, sensors, and shields, and larger fighters, will all do the trick you're looking for, I think. Some weapons will also use fewer supplies per turn per kT, although it would make sense to add some supply storage options to fighters.

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4) What the heck are meson bLasters for? They seem to suck to me.

They sort of do suck. Not very many people use them except for RP purposes.

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I disagree, both in unmodded and in Proportions.

In unmodded, they are pretty easy to research, do almost as much damage/kT/turn as the best weapons, they get more shots than larger weapons, are more cost-efficient than PPBs, their small size makes for more flexibility in ship design, and Last but not least, against the hardest-to-hit opponents, their max range of 6 rather than APB's 8 can actually be an advantage.

In Proportions, they have many of the same advantages. The low research entry level, and the efficient cost are more important in Proportions. Researching them also gives a good fighter weapon and a good anti-fighter PD weapon. They do have an added disadvantage in Proportions, in that there are many types of armor which reduce the amount of damage per hit, which has more of an effect against lighter weapons.

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5) Is it better to put supply components on every ship that needs to travel to attack the enemy (uses up precious space that could go towards weapons and armor) or is it better to build specialized supply tankers (game's "sharing of supplies evenly among all ships in a fleet" seems very inefficient)?

Either way works. It has been mentioned before that you want at least 1 or 2 supply storage on each warship that you have. But I would suggest having a few supply tankers in your fleets as well to resupply the fleet once the battle is over. Or just go straight for the QR and have unlimited supplies no matter what.

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The QR option is much less feasible and attractive in Proportions. Supply issues are much more improtant, as well. There are a number of considerations, but the most basic one is whether it is going to be used as an offensive or frontier ship for operating far from a base or not. If so, then you should probably consider using some efficient engines and supply storage on the ship itself. If instead it is a defensive ship that will always be near a resupply depot, then you can maximize abilities at the expense of range. You could even have zero storage components on a defensive ship, and use an ionic shield generator to protect against engine-destroying weapons.

Tankers are more effective that they might seem in Proportions. Use a hull type with a good combination of size and maintenance reduction, like a destroyer for fast fleets, or a transport for slower fleets. However realize that if you rely on tankers, and the tankers get killed, your fleet may suddenly become stranded.

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6) What makes "Neutral" dispositioned races happy? I find that if I pick "Peaceful" races, I get keep them on "Happy" and "Jubilant" most of the time. However, if I pick "Neutral", they spend most of their time on "Indifferent".

Never pick Neutral, it is a pain in the arse to keep them happy. Any treaty, war, new alien race, alien ships in your system will make them very unhappy and possibly cause riots ruining your empire. Peaceful is the easiest to keep happy and probably the best happiness type to take at the beginning of a game.

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Yeah, more or less. If you want to roleplay a neutral, you want to avoid contact with aliens, and then do something else to keep happiness up (facilities, bunches of "civillian ships" (i.e. unequipped scouts) in orbit, etc).

quote:

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7) I find that once an AI declares war on me, I can't seem to end it, even if they are "Brotherly" to me and no one actually engages in combat for ages and ages.

I believe in the AI_Settings.txt file for that particular AI is a line that makes it not accept any treaties for X amount of turns after the Last battle with you. Just don't fight with them and they will eventually turn around and allie with you once more.

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Avoiding systems the AI claims is a big one. Giving them things can help.
The Proportions AI's are all modded and many have increased the time required to arrive at peace. They are different from each other, too. The Xi'Chung will pretty much always want you for lunch.

PvK

[oleg]

Since most questions are related to Proportions, I'll try to answer questions with it in mind.

Proportions' torpedos do not suck PvK improved them. In stock SE torpedos are (almost) useless.

Meson bLaster is a very good weapon. Just remember it has size 20, while APB, DUC, etc. take 30 space ! you can put 50% more MB then APB on ship.

Proportions' fighters use supplies during strategic turns. Do not keep in space for long.

To increase range of your ships, use efficient engines. You will lose some speed though. It is a good idea to have 1-2 supply bays on each ship. It may save you when enemy uses engine killers. Still, few supply ships is a good idea.

[deccan]

Thanks for the replies.

I missed one question though and it's a biggie: how does the "Mounts" interface work? I click on the Mounts button, a list of available mounts come up, I select one, the window closes, and then ... nothing?

I guess I might seem slow but I was expecting it to work something like in MOO3, in which you get to choose to mount a particular weapon as a spinal, or light mount, or heavy mount or whatever. Is this true for SEIV or does this game do it differently?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

the mount is applied to the weapons it applies to, like direct fire or missiles. you can see if you've got a mount selected because there's a letter in the corner, upper left i think, of the icon.

[Erax]

Just to clarify a bit more : after you select the Large mount (for example) all direct fire weapons options will have an 'L' in the corner of their icon. Any weapons you install are now automatically Large. If you want to install a normal-sized weapon (maybe because you can't fit another Large one in) then you must select Mounts, then Normal Mount, which makes all direct fire weapons options normal-sized again.

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by deccan:
Hello,

Just to introduce myself a bit, I'm a complete newbie player, a MOO3 defector. Ordered SEIV Gold Online and received it a couple of weeks ago. This game just rocks by the way.

I've been playing with the Proportions mod (because I just like long, slow games) and I have some questions:

Greetings and welcome to SEIV.

1) Does anyone else think that PD is incredibly powerful? I keep wishing that I could make it my main weapon and hit ships with it.

Yes, I would have to tent to agree that Point Defense is a tad more effective in Proportions than in a standard game, but then again, I could be wrong.

2) Why does everyone seem to think that torpedoes suck? They seem alright to me, stat-wise. (Yes, I know about the reload rate.) Am I missing something else?

I have never really paid much attention to this debate, and feel that if people do not like the way something is set up, they can mod it. After all, the game is easily modable and one can tune the game or a mod to one desires.

3) How do I keep my fighters from running out of ammo in mid-battle? If I max them out on engines, they run far, far ahead of my main fleet. I can't add supply storage components to them. Use less weapons and more armor on them?

First off, I wouldn't help "your" fighters from running out of ammo in mid-battle as that would only help me. Seriously, you can either change your design and add the extra storage mod, or you can mod a fighter component to allow for more storage. I.E. the engines can carry more storage or use less supplies.

4) What the heck are meson bLasters for? They seem to suck to me.

Some weapons, like the Meson BLasters, do sometimes suck and I honestly never use them, but I am told, and have read that they do serve a purpose, what that is exactly I honestly have not GD idea. Perhaps one of the other Posts will shed some like on this, and I to will become "informed." (You see, there is no dumb question.)

5) I need some suggestions for ship designs. I notice that the AI doesn't tend to put supply components in combat vessels, but then they tend not to travel very far. Is it better to put supply components on every ship that needs to travel to attack the enemy (uses up precious space that could go towards weapons and armor) or is it better to build specialized supply tankers (game's "sharing of supplies evenly among all ships in a fleet" seems very inefficient)?

It is not nessassary to put more than one or two supply storages on a standard design. You can design ships that are STORAGE specific that are considered support ships and have nothing but supply storage.

Or you can build a forward base and on that base, normally a moon, build a resupply base.

6) What makes "Neutral" dispositioned races happy? I find that if I pick "Peaceful" races, I get keep them on "Happy" and "Jubilant" most of the time. However, if I pick "Neutral", they spend most of their time on "Indifferent".

It has been my experience that the AI diplomacy and politics system is broken therefore this is no way to effectively keep a "neutral" or other dispositioned race happy.

You can again modify the Anger and Politics.txt files, but that still really has only a small effect over all.

7) I find that once an AI declares war on me, I can't seem to end it, even if they are "Brotherly" to me and no one actually engages in combat for ages and ages.

A repeat answer:
It has been my experience that the AI diplomacy and politics system is broken therefore this is no way to effectively keep a "neutral" or other dispositioned race happy.

You can again modify the Anger and Politics.txt files, but that still really has only a small effect over all.

8) How do tech trades work? The AI keeps giving me tech that I have already.

The Ai can only give you technology that is considered and advancement if you do not already have it. I.E., if you have PPB II and the AI has PPB III, you would received a Technology increase if the AI agreed to exchange technology with you and your received PPB III in that trade. However, if you and the AI both had PPB II, and the AI traded PPB technology with you, the trade would not benifit you.

Sorry, if some of my questions seem silly. I haven't really played all that much yet and I'm nowhere near to completing a game.

Friend there are no silly questions here.

[ June 03, 2003, 14:53: Message edited by: Atrocities ]