Rules-Conduct-Playing to win-and Gamy moves? - Page 2

PvK · #11 July 11th, 2003, 11:19 PM

Thermo, personally, I would say your move was fine as long as there was no written house rule against it. Is it possible you missed an earlier discussion of this rule by joining late?

In any case, however, the game master has the final say on what is done. It sounds like he has strong feelings about surrender which aren't uncommon. They should be spelled out however, and I agree that it would be a lot more fair to you to discuss it with you first. Now that you know it's an issue to some players, it'd be good to check with game masters before surrendering, even if I wouldn't say you were clearly responsible to do so.

Basically it's a misunderstanding and lack of communication. I don't think anyone should need to have bad feelings about it.

PvK

Erax · #12 July 11th, 2003, 11:47 PM

Quote:

That is not true. In fact, the exact opposite is true. Rolling back the turn to undo the wrong actions causes less resentment than allowing them to stand.

I guess our experiences in this regard are different. Mine have always followed this pattern : one player complains -> everyone else is silent -> GM rolls the turn back -> three players who had been silent now begin complaining about the turn being re-done. The situation proceeds to worsen from then on.

Thermo : I feel this was a flaw of the system; there were unspoken rules which you did not know about. Next time they should be spoken or better yet written down. No one should feel guilty or blame someone else for what happened. Forgive the person who accused you and move on. Easy for me to say because it isn't my reputation, I know, but that is the advice I have to give.

[ July 11, 2003, 22:48: Message edited by: Erax ]

primitive · #13 July 11th, 2003, 11:51 PM

As the player who got the surrender and requested the roll back i guess I have to make some comments.

I do roleplay my race. The Taolosian fight for honor and sport and I try to do everything in character. During the whole "war" I took 1 planet and did not destroy a single ship. There are no way the Taolosians would have accepted a surrender after such a minor skirmish. I do want to win the game, but I also want to do it a manner I can be proud of. You dropping 10+ systems in my lap would make the game less enjoyable for me, so I asked the remaining players if we could roll back the turn and mark your empire dead instead.

I would urge anybody leaving a game to consider how their leaving could make the game fairer and more fun for the remaining players, not the opposite.

Erax · #14 July 12th, 2003, 12:05 AM

Ok, the issue is becoming clear. I don't see any ill-will here, only a misunderstanding and different views on how to play the game.

Thermo : do you agree that, once you left the game, any roll-backs they did are no longer your worry ? Let them sort out their problems the way they want.

Primitive : do you recognize that you, or the GM, may have posted something using a poor choice of words that may have upset Thermo ? Are you willing to say that there was no ill-will involved on your part ?

Fyron · #15 July 12th, 2003, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Erax:

quote:
That is not true. In fact, the exact opposite is true. Rolling back the turn to undo the wrong actions causes less resentment than allowing them to stand.

I guess our experiences in this regard are different. Mine have always followed this pattern : one player complains -> everyone else is silent -> GM rolls the turn back -> three players who had been silent now begin complaining about the turn being re-done. The situation proceeds to worsen from then on.

I always force everyone to be involved in the discussion before any actions are taken. If you do not speak your mind now, you have absolutely no right to complain later.

primitive · #16 July 12th, 2003, 12:24 AM

Erax:
We are not 12 year olds and you don't need to treat us like we are

Thermodyne · #17 July 12th, 2003, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by primitive:
As the player who got the surrender and requested the roll back i guess I have to make some comments.

I do roleplay my race. The Taolosian fight for honor and sport and I try to do everything in character. During the whole "war" I took 1 planet and did not destroy a single ship. There are no way the Taolosians would have accepted a surrender after such a minor skirmish. I do want to win the game, but I also want to do it a manner I can be proud of. You dropping 10+ systems in my lap would make the game less enjoyable for me, so I asked the remaining players if we could roll back the turn and mark your empire dead instead.

I would urge anybody leaving a game to consider how their leaving could make the game fairer and more fun for the remaining players, not the opposite.

And the other side of the coin is?

By addressing your need to make your people happy you totally pissed mine off. So I mothball shops and spend hours trying to fix the budget shortfall. Then your ally attacks and before I can scrape enough funds together to put the fleets back in service, every one is on strike again. At this point it has become a chore to make the turns, so I gave you the privilege

of doing my part. And we were at war. You by act and me by declaration. Also, I asked for peace and a deal before you took the stack. But if I recall the act of taking them was as important as having them.

At any rate I have no problem with what you did. It was the lack of consult and then the way the game was halted that frosted my nads.

Thermodyne · #18 July 12th, 2003, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Erax:
Ok, the issue is becoming clear. I don't see any ill-will here, only a misunderstanding and different views on how to play the game.

Thermo : do you agree that, once you left the game, any roll-backs they did are no longer your worry ? Let them sort out their problems the way they want.

Primitive : do you recognize that you, or the GM, may have posted something using a poor choice of words that may have upset Thermo ? Are you willing to say that there was no ill-will involved on your part ?

Erax: That is not the point of this now.

The point is this:

He has admitted that he did not have all of the facts, and casually laid this at Primitives feet by implying that he �didn�t disclose all the facts�. It was his job, not Primitives, to see what was going on, and to get the facts. And after making some excuses that all admit that the post was in error, he has done nothing. The post is still up and no retraction has been made. He even went so far as to say that he was in no position to make a decision on the issue. Then WTF was he doing implying that I had broken a rule so serious that the game had to be halted? He made that decision right quickly. And Who The F### is running the game. And now that the issue is resolved why has he still not replied and why is the post still up on the game page?

[ July 12, 2003, 00:18: Message edited by: Thermodyne ]

Phoenix-D · #19 July 12th, 2003, 01:26 AM

"Then WTF was he doing implying that I had broken a rule so serious that the game had to be halted? He made that decision right quickly. And Who The F### is running the game. And now that the issue is resolved why has he still not replied and why is the post still up on the game page?"

This is a very simple issue. The game was halted until it was decided what to do, since running another turn with no decision would make many of the options available moot. As for the rest, he probably hasn't gotten around to it yet.

Erax · #20 July 12th, 2003, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Erax: We are not 12 year olds and you don't need to treat us like we are

Hahaha, you two remind me of some of my friends (who are not 12-yr-olds either). I just acted like I would with them if they were in the room with me.

Thermo : Cool down, give it a day or two, then take it up with him again if it's still important to you. Some people have a hard time dealing with their own mistakes, I can be like that myself.