Please Read

[Atrocities]

Please Read.

I just wanted to start a thread and talk about us, the people who post here in this forum.

Over the years many people have come to this forum and stayed not because of the games, oh sure that lead us here, but more so because of the people and the calabur of professionalism of the Posts, and dignity and kindness that was afforded to all.

That dignity and level of open minded professional behavior that has Lasted for so long has recently been underminded by dissenting views and negative argumentative post over certain topics.

Last month I had had enough of it and walked away from the forum fully prepared to never come back. I had posted some things that were out of line, offensive, and simply wrong. It was not my intent to do so but never the less I did. That sparked a huge debate and mud slinging sewer fight that I am ashamed of.

I came to my senses and realized that this place we share, these forums, are our conduit to each other. We post ideas, thoughts, jokes, and a bunch of other interesting topics because we, all of us, enjoy the interaction and comradery that comes from being a member here.

So why have we had so many argumentative, hostile, and even painful discussion about things that we all know nothing good will come from? Why do we let these dark discussion spiral out of control and erupt into heated arguments, not debates, but full blown gutter driven fights?

I honestly don't know why, but I have a theory about it. I feel that over time many of us have become comfortable with other members of this forum and feel free to post what we truly think and feel. By doing so, we have failed to understand that what we post can and most often will be taken the wrong way.

We all need to remember that our words can hurt people even if that was never the intent. When that happens, we then out of pride, stand by those words in an attempt to save face when all we should do is just apologies and walk way.

Many of us, me included, don't step back and look at the big picture, we focus on the topic at hand and go for it. We fixate upon the subject and material of the post and forget all about dignity and professionalism and attack those who have different points of view. Those people in turn do the same and the battle royal is on.

In the end, nothing is accomplished say for hurt feelings and angry members. I almost walked away from this forum because of just such an incident and I know that others have done the same, left the forum over arguments that should never have occurred.

We are after all human, and we all have our own views on world events. But we as a whole, here in this forum, must remember to step back from the debate before it becomes and agreement or this site will fail. People will begin to leave and they will not come back. Shrapnel's Intel forums will suffer from this and so will we all. Why should we allow ourselves to loose one member over something as stupid as a disagreement over a particular topic? No member of this forum is worth losing and all should remember that.

Please consider what it is your about to post and how it will effect others before you post it. If your angry about a post or topic, take a few minutes to calm down and think about what it is your about to post. NOTHING is worth getting angry over if you stop and think about it. If you know that you are not the antagonist why feed the beast? No matter what we say it will not have the intended result. It is my sincere belief that hot topics should be cooled before they are allowed to spiral out of control. The reason for this was made clearly evident by recent threads. They ignited a debate, that debate became an agreement, that argument became a fire storm, and that fire storm became a sewer fight.

Look we are all human, and we all have our buttons that can be pushed from time to time. When someone’s button is pushed, deliberately or by accident, stop pushing it. Just stop.

In the end you will do more good than harm, and hopefully everyone will learn from your example and we all then can avoid losing what we have here.

We are all here for to post and have a good time, so what do you all say to doing that and leave the bitterness and anger out of it.

Thanks for reading this if you have.

[ January 09, 2004, 12:46: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

[gregebowman]

I for one try to avoid the political threads, mostly for the reasons that Atrocities sited. Everyone has their own opinions, and some people will take no other opinion than their own. I try not to offend anyone, and if I"m making a joke, I try to make sure that everyone knows I'm doing so. I know there was one poster Last year who got upset with me because I mentioned my computer got zapped by lightning maybe a few times too many. But I think that's as far as I've offended anyone that I'm aware of.

[Slynky]

I guess I've not been hanging around the right threads...guess I missed the "Attrocities has a caniption (sp?)" post. Must say I'm a bit surprised.

Well, the fault is the lack of a person staring you in the face. It's the same reason people "kill" themselves to get their car in front of yours on the highway (yet would never get in front of you at a movie theatre line). It's the same reason people will cuss a store clerk out over the phone and say stuff they would never say if staring at that same clerk over the counter. It's the nature of the "beast" we call the Internet.

It's one of the reasons I refrain from joining in on the serious discussions here, too. The "my God is real and yours isn't", "my country is better than yours", and the number of other various discussions that someone feels strongly about to post are "places" that have (or should have) "neon warning" lights beside the subject line. (besides, I'm not smart enough for most of the debates... ).

Good post, "big A". And humble. Does one good to search one's soul once in a while and get rid of some of the cobwebs that have gathered.

[Slynky]

Originally posted by gregebowman:
I for one try to avoid the political threads, mostly for the reasons that Atrocities sited. Everyone has their own opinions, and some people will take no other opinion than their own. I try not to offend anyone, and if I"m making a joke, I try to make sure that everyone knows I'm doing so. I know there was one poster Last year who got upset with me because I mentioned my computer got zapped by lightning maybe a few times too many. But I think that's as far as I've offended anyone that I'm aware of.

Yes, I remember him. It was when I first came into the forum was just "cruising" around to "check the place out". I remember thinking, "Gee, if this is the kind of forum this place is, I might as well move on!" Turns out it was an isolated incident (and highly uncalled for). As I recall, he then proceeded to make fun of your name and your avatar. I've never forgotten it and it almost made me leave and not come back.

[gregebowman]

Originally posted by Slynky:

quote:

---

Originally posted by gregebowman:
I for one try to avoid the political threads, mostly for the reasons that Atrocities sited. Everyone has their own opinions, and some people will take no other opinion than their own. I try not to offend anyone, and if I"m making a joke, I try to make sure that everyone knows I'm doing so. I know there was one poster Last year who got upset with me because I mentioned my computer got zapped by lightning maybe a few times too many. But I think that's as far as I've offended anyone that I'm aware of.

Yes, I remember him. It was when I first came into the forum was just "cruising" around to "check the place out". I remember thinking, "Gee, if this is the kind of forum this place is, I might as well move on!" Turns out it was an isolated incident (and highly uncalled for). As I recall, he then proceeded to make fun of your name and your avatar. I've never forgotten it and it almost made me leave and not come back.

---

Gee, I forgot about that part. I know the Einstein picture wasn't the best thing out there, and that's why I changed it recently. But it wasn't because of him. I completely forgot about that. And like I told him, my name is my name, and there's not much I can do about it. I could change my handle, but since it's my name, I'll stick to it. The only thing I'd change would be taking that E out. It always stuck me as wrong, as I usually go by Greg Bowman, or if formal, I go by Gregory E. Bowman, but that's part of my email address and that's why I chose that handle.

[President_Elect_Shang]

I am not ashamed to admit that:

I have flamed others on various threads at this forum.
I have posted with the sole intent of refusing to admit that I could be or was wrong.
I have apologized more than once when I cooled down.
I have asked Atrocities for aid in my Last gutter fight, a person that I deeply respect and consider to be a friend, in the context of the word that I apply to the internet (i.e. never having meet).
That I have allowed my real world situation to gain control of my senses and fuel my anger for no better reason than to attack someone, no attack anyone. Misery loves company.

I am not ashamed to admit any of this. I am not saying this out of disrespect, arrogance, or any other self-centered feelings. I say it because I am also not afraid to wear my failures and shortcomings on my sleeve for all to see.

What I am ashamed of is that I allowed my anger to overcome me to the point that I decided to leave our forum rather than let the issue slide.

Lesson learned and I am back.

[tesco samoa]

AT you must also consider if we were all living near each other this would occur as well but in conversation.

We are friends here. Some people will take offence and leave. Some will stay. Some will not take things personally. I have been upset ( never mad ) a few times over the years. There are a few people who can really get under my skin. So i had a choice. Become friends with them to understand why they think that way or leave. I decided to become there friends. As an oppertunity to learn must never be missed. As is the oppertunity to gain a friend. I have contacted the people privately and resoved the problem before it became an issue.

You know I would rather have some one post something and have people find it offensive than people not posting anything at all or white washing everything.

As long as we keep the personal flinging down. That is all I ask for. For I like to read what people are thinking. I do not always reply. And I have written stuff and then just hit the back button instead.

But you cannot leave because your part of the core group now.

And what brings you back is the real reason we post here. SE gaming. When I take a break I skip the OT topics and just read the SE topics.

It is all the evolution of our relationships with each other.

This is a hump we need to get over as a core. Some will make it some will not. To some people this is the only place they can post what they think. That is an honour in itself.

[Cipher7071]

Good points all around, and I tend to agree. I don't come to this forum for that kind of argument. I can handle an ideological discussion, so long as it's civil. I even tried to stamp out an impending flame-war in one thread, without success.

As far as I can see, this is an English-speaking forum. But what you have to realize is many people who post here have English as a second language. Those people will often not understand the nuances and idiosyncracies of the language as spoken in other parts of the world.

Even among England, the United States, Canada, and Australia there are differences of expression that are difficult to understand from one place to another. So it stands to reason that one must be very literal in any sort of serious discussion in order not to be misundertood.

That's my two-cents worth.

[Atrocities]

Well spoken everyone.

I agree Tesco, 100%.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Those are all great points Tesco, and I am inclined to agree with you for the most part. I can’t speak for Atrocities but feel that he was implying something similar, but unspoken in his post.

One point I don’t agree with is the first line, I didn’t read that you meant it literally, but I felt that I should touch on it anyway. Since I or my family has been with the military for over a decade we have moved around a lot, Korea, Texas, Germany, France, Italy, Turkey, Luxemburg, Georgia, North Carolina, plus several deployments including my wife’s current one where the family did not tag along. It has been my experience that (regionally speaking) communities share a common theme and thus a common view on topics. I can even see it here with the Germans sharing a similar view, the Texans, etc. Of course it goes without saying that there are always exceptions to every rule.

Edited in: I guess I was preparing my post at the same time as you Atrocities, my apologies to everyone as it now reads out of order. Cipher, I know you have been hard hit for sharing your views, if I recall right I even stood with you on one fight with Ronan, my apologies if I every shot rounds down range in your direction.

[ January 09, 2004, 15:46: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ]