Ship weapon loadout - Page 7

primitive · #61 January 23rd, 2004, 07:57 PM

GT:
Ginger and black you say. Well, I may have to adjust the colours on my monitor, cause you look more grey and brown to me

I used to love satelittes until I met Asmala in the Open tournament (5 player game). Had the border warpoint secured by a nice big stack of 100+ small and medium sats, with good weapons and max sensors (+ I was 20/20 berzerker). I felt very secure and content behind this formidable (I thought) wall. In comes Asmala with a trained fleet set on max range. Allthough within range, I could not hit his ships at all. Total dissaster and out goes the barbarian.

Satelittes have one BIG flaw. They can't hit trained ships/fleets unless they are stupid enough to get in close.

WPs are somewhat more usefull but only when used in large quantities. It's quite fun sneaking in a bunch of good WPs on a disputed planet as a surprise. As for detering raider ships/fleets, I only employ them as the third level of defence after fighters and mines.

primitive · #62 January 23rd, 2004, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
You're whole point of making the enemy paranoid is irrelevant .........

Well, you are wrong about this. Deception and finesse will win you just as many games as brute force. But since you seem lack the ability to even consider any ideas not of your own making as viable, there is no point in continuing this discussion with you.

Fyron · #63 January 23rd, 2004, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by primitive:

quote:
Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
You're whole point of making the enemy paranoid is irrelevant .........

Well, you are wrong about this. Deception and finesse will win you just as many games as brute force. But since you seem lack the ability to even consider any ideas not of your own making as viable, there is no point in continuing this discussion with you.

Umm... obviously I considered your ideas, as I was able to come up with counter arguments. Your claim of me not having the ability to consider ideas of others is highly insulting. Is something wrong with discussing ideas and concepts without making it personal?

[ January 23, 2004, 18:25: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

geoschmo · #64 January 23rd, 2004, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by primitive:
Satelittes have one BIG flaw. They can't hit trained ships/fleets unless they are stupid enough to get in close.

Exactly, and fighters suffer from the same flaw. The fighters of course can move around a bit, but the range advantage of the PDC allows them to be taken out before the fighter weapons themselves come into range.

Fyron · #65 January 23rd, 2004, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Exactly, and fighters suffer from the same flaw. The fighters of course can move around a bit, but the range advantage of the PDC allows them to be taken out before the fighter weapons themselves come into range.

Exactly. Fleet stacking of PDC weapons means those fighters have a huge amount of damage to soak up before they ever get a chance to fire.

Parasite · #66 January 23rd, 2004, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by primitive:
I dished WPs and Sats earlier. Will nobody step up an defend their honor ?

WPs are good to put on beginning planets that may be out on a limb. If an enemy planet capture fleet comes along, the they can destroy the planet while destoying the WPs. leaving him nothing but the ashes to capture, or nothing at all. Not a base for him to use against you. It doesn't always work, but sometimes it does.

primitive · #67 January 23rd, 2004, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by geoschmo:

quote:
Originally posted by primitive:
Satelittes have one BIG flaw. They can't hit trained ships/fleets unless they are stupid enough to get in close.

Exactly, and fighters suffer from the same flaw. The fighters of course can move around a bit, but the range advantage of the PDC allows them to be taken out before the fighter weapons themselves come into range.

"Know when to hold them"

When your enemy have sufficient PDC ready, you hold them. You don't win many battles with them, but you win the war with economics. Strategy gaming at its best

Fyron · #68 January 23rd, 2004, 09:07 PM

Or you lose the war from having wasted more resources on the fighters and carriers than the opponent has wasted on PDC.

Still awaiting an apology for the minor flame you made there Primitive.

[ January 23, 2004, 19:08: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

primitive · #69 January 23rd, 2004, 09:26 PM

Since it was a minor flame, I guess I can offer a minor apology

But you still have not understood the point of bluffing and counterbluffing. Fighters you only pay for once, PDC you pay for when built, and then the same amount again in maintanance every 4 - 7 turns. The fighterbuilder got to be pretty stupid not to win the economic part of that game.

geoschmo · #70 January 23rd, 2004, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by primitive:
"Know when to hold them"
When your enemy have sufficient PDC ready, you hold them. You don't win many battles with them, but you win the war with economics. Strategy gaming at its best

I will agree there is some amount of satisfaction from planning and executing a strategy and having it come off succesfully. Hitting the enemy where is ain't can be quite exhillerating.

And you might be able to get them to work marginally if you are extremely dilligent at maintaining the suprise factor and go through the micro managment neccesary to pull off the plan you have suggested here. But fighters aren't effective unless the enemy is totally unprepared for them. The plan you suggest depends too much on the enemy doing something to fall into your trap so to speak. It will work if they are unprepared, but will be a failure if they are, and isn't noticably cheaper in resources, isn't noticibly faster really, and has a lot more work involved in setting it up. The alternative, ships and no fighters, well, just works.

Maybe I am wierd, but I don't stop putting a couple of PDC on every warship just because the enemy stops, or never starts, using fighters and missles in a game. If the players you are facing do that, it would explain why you have success with fighters. I suspect it's just generally your level of skill though and not the fighters. I have faced you a few times and remember you to be a tough fight with or without them.

I'd love it if fighters could be effective longer into the game, but as far as I have seen in the stock game they aren't.