OT - Spiderman: movie Version or comic book Version? - Page 2

PvK · #11 July 7th, 2004, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gregebowman:
PvK, I think the reason why some of those movies stink is that the direct/producer/executive productor relied too much on special effects. ...

I agree that's one of the essential shortcomings of films like the recent SW flicks. Two others are the lack of convincing terror during combat (reducing the events to unemotional CGI contests), and the bad physics I mentioned before (making the motions look unconvincing and stupid, to people who have seen real objects move, or the pacing of real fighting and panic situations).

Episode IV showed rebels who were afraid of the stormtroopers bLasting them, and with good reason. Episodes I-II had kids who were too young to act, doing impossible physics-defying and common-sense-insulting stunts and risking their lives without a second thought or even seeming concerned at all, and laying waste to bunches of unemotional opponents as a sort of "oh yeah, they died" side-effect.

Reaction times (in Episode IV) were also NOT fake-o instant reactions where the only pause between gymnastic combat is for unbelievable blase one-liners ("I'm so cool, I am not at all concerned by your CGI powers. Watch my CGI be scripted to (yawn) defeat you. Now, watch my CGI not need to take any time to catch its breath, get its bearings, tell friend from foe, catch its balance, or anything that weak non-CGI beings need to do."). Episode IV showed sweating terrified rebels getting bLasted, and used actual WW2 dogfight films to choreograph the maneuvers of fighters in combat. Episodes I-II had nonsense like jumping thousands of feet onto speeding moving vehicles, and catching light sabres from similar distances, without breaking any bones or failing to grab hold of things, and plenty of generally way-too-fast and way-too-maneuverable and way-too-easy maneuvers by the way-too-unconcerned pilots.

Ok, pardon the side-topic rant. Ahem.

PvK

[ July 07, 2004, 19:02: Message edited by: PvK ]

narf poit chez BOOM · #12 July 7th, 2004, 11:52 PM

It seems in a lot of story's today that the characters are unaffected by violent death. 'Oh, gee, I was an ordinary office worker and now I'm killing people. Neat.'

Did I just poke a huge hole in the matrix?

Caduceus · #13 July 8th, 2004, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dogscoff:

i wonder if they 'borrowed' this idea from the late, great Spiderman 2099 series.

/me used to love the 2099 titles...

Gotta love Spider Man 2099, John Romita Jr at his best... And the main character? Miguel O'Hara!

Wildcard

Kamog · #14 July 8th, 2004, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Episodes I-II had kids who were too young to act, doing impossible physics-defying and common-sense-insulting stunts and risking their lives without a second thought or even seeming concerned at all, and laying waste to bunches of unemotional opponents as a sort of "oh yeah, they died" side-effect.

Yeah, I thought that Quigon, Obi-Wan and Anakin were way too calm in situations of great danger... I just assumed that all those years of strict Jedi training lets you eliminate fear or something.

narf poit chez BOOM · #15 July 8th, 2004, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wildcard06:

quote:
Originally posted by dogscoff:

i wonder if they 'borrowed' this idea from the late, great Spiderman 2099 series.

/me used to love the 2099 titles...

Gotta love Spider Man 2099, John Romita Jr at his best... And the main character? Miguel O'Hara!

Wildcard

Missed the pop culture reference again...

PvK · #16 July 8th, 2004, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kamog:

quote:
Episodes I-II had kids who were too young to act, doing impossible physics-defying and common-sense-insulting stunts and risking their lives without a second thought or even seeming concerned at all, and laying waste to bunches of unemotional opponents as a sort of "oh yeah, they died" side-effect.

Yeah, I thought that Quigon, Obi-Wan and Anakin were way too calm in situations of great danger... I just assumed that all those years of strict Jedi training lets you eliminate fear or something.

Exactly. As audience, I got the clue I didn't need to worry, or care, either. Especially when the CGI also looked so fake that it was obviously an illusion, as for example in the "submarine with ridiculous CGI attention-deficit-ecology of whales chain-swallowing each other in the background" scene.

I have heard the idea that maybe Jedi are just hyper-cool-minded before, but gee, compare to the way Sir Alec Guinness portrayed an (older, so presumably more serene) Obi-Wan (i.e., he was cool and in control, but also showed visible concern, worry and alarm at appropriate times), and I think it's pretty darn clear that the real reason is lack of good acting and/or direction.

Quote:

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
It seems in a lot of story's today that the characters are unaffected by violent death. 'Oh, gee, I was an ordinary office worker and now I'm killing people. Neat.'

Yep. Sigh.

Quote:

Did I just poke a huge hole in the matrix?

In which sense?

The Matrix is kind of interesting in the levels of fakeness turning out to be in fact fake, on multiple levels. However it's undermined by the retarded Hollywood direction where so much is fake hyper-speed broken physics zero-reaction-time zero-fear nonsense anyway.

PvK

[ July 08, 2004, 21:09: Message edited by: PvK ]

gregebowman · #17 July 8th, 2004, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PvK:

quote:
Originally posted by Kamog:

quote:
Episodes I-II had kids who were too young to act, doing impossible physics-defying and common-sense-insulting stunts and risking their lives without a second thought or even seeming concerned at all, and laying waste to bunches of unemotional opponents as a sort of "oh yeah, they died" side-effect.

Yeah, I thought that Quigon, Obi-Wan and Anakin were way too calm in situations of great danger... I just assumed that all those years of strict Jedi training lets you eliminate fear or something.
Exactly. As audience, I got the clue I didn't need to worry, or care, either. Especially when the CGI also looked so fake that it was obviously an illusion, as for example in the "submarine with ridiculous CGI attention-deficit-ecology of whales chain-swallowing each other in the background" scene.

I have heard the idea that maybe Jedi are just hyper-cool-minded before, but gee, compare to the way Sir Alec Guinness portrayed an (older, so presumably more serene) Obi-Wan (i.e., he was cool and in control, but also showed visible concern, worry and alarm at appropriate times), and I think it's pretty darn clear that the real reason is lack of good acting and/or direction.

Quote:

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
It seems in a lot of story's today that the characters are unaffected by violent death. 'Oh, gee, I was an ordinary office worker and now I'm killing people. Neat.'

Yep. Sigh.

Quote:

Did I just poke a huge hole in the matrix?

In which sense? The Matrix is kind of interesting in the levels of fakeness turning out to be in fact fake, on multiple levels. However it's undermined by the retarded Hollywood direction where so much is fake hyper-speed broken physics zero-reaction-time zero-fear nonsense anyway.

PvK

Usually, George Lucas has used less experienced actors in his SW films. Whoever heard of Mark Hamill or Carrie Fisher or Harrison Ford before SW IV came out? But there was no excuse for the actors in SW I. The main actors were all experienced actors, even Jake Lloyd and Natalie Portman had a few films under their belts before this movie. Like I stated before, I think Lucas has lost his touch at directing, and the first two SW films are proof of it. I just hope the third film will try to make amends for the first two. I'm crossing my fingers until next May.