What now????

[Jochen Schmidt]

Well,

flame me or not.

After playing like a maniac, i see, that this game is not finished. The Ai not only need improvements, it is still in need to be able to play as a part of the game itself.

I don´t have the time nor the patience to code my own AI - this is the job of the progammers i paid money to. And this job is not finished in a very big part!!!!!!

Don´t get me wrong, this game is/would be great if all the fixes would be made, but at the moment, this is no full game for me. So i am not angry, but frustrated - ... such a depth, such a great variaty.... what great games would be possible....

So, i don´t play further (after i know now all secrets of the game, it´s too boring to play only to win against a weak AI), and will wait what the next patches will bring.

I thought, that this game would be my game over the christmas time - but it isn´t.

Sorry, i have to say this.

See you till the next patch.

Jochen

[Freyland]

Way ahead of ya, Jochen-baby!

disk is just gathering dust.

Jonathan

[Ebonyknight]

Yeah, same here. I lost interest two weeks ago. I keep poking my head in here to see if there are any fixes.

Amazing how just one or two aspects can ruin a practically perfect game.

All the things you can do are amazing and exciting, but if you can't play a decent AI, it just pales.

[Psitticine]

May I make a suggestion?

If y'all don't care for the AI, why don't you try playing against each other?

[Talenn]

Well, I guess I'm just more stubborn than y'all are.

I'm still plowing ahead and making tweaks and changes. Every now and then I can get a good if not great game out of the AI. Its still very lacking in the 'flavor' department though as far as AIs go. I think the MOO series is a tough act to follow in that regard and that is what most folks are going to use as the baseline.

Personally, I do agree that parts seem unfinished. I think this is simply too large of an undertaking for what is basically a one man design/programming outfit. I think the game could GREATLY benefit from having a few extra people go in and do alot of work on the AI in terms of Messages sent and general 'personality'. I think the basic framework is there, but without info on the inner working of the AI, all we can do as Users is scratch the surface.

But even at that, I'm still enjoying the game. Anything that I can tweak and futz with the numbers gets a big boost in my book!

Talenn

[C4]

My disk is on the way to being an expensive coaster. I was counting on the single play being good because IMHO multiplay games will take way too long.

The AI seems to be pretty poor and the game play is somewhat interesting, but not exciting. What killed it for me are two things:

1. Going to war with a race and then watching the race's 36 dreadnoughts fail to attack my lightly defended colony that I just took from them.

2. There appears to be no rhyme or reason to the diplomacy and moods. If I start doing too well, all of the contacted races get ticked off and declare war.

I will definitely look for patches to correct game play issues, but as it stands there's no way I can recommend SEIV to anyone else.

I should know by now - DO NOT PREORDER!

[Talenn]

C4:

Yes the first problem you cite is pretty bad. I've seen it over and over again as well. Even when at war, the AI's handling of the conflicts are inept at best and border on criminal at worst. This is definately something which needs looking into and will prolly be addressed in a future patch...I hope.

The second 'problem' is an intended feature called 'Mega Evil AI'. Basically, it IS supposed to gang up on the winner at some point. I think this is a good thing and forces you to be more self sufficient in the later stages of the game rather than depending on Trade to float your econ.

You CAN turn this off however. Go into the 'settings' file and change 'AI uses Mega Evil' from TRUE to FALSE. That should take care of that issue for you.

But, I still think the 'Diplomacy' has miles to go. It seems to be limited to 'Treaties', 'General Messages' and 'Request to remove presence/break treaty with bad guys' Messages. I know there are ALOT more Messages and whatnot in the data, but I rarely if EVER see them. Where are the Demands for gifts? Why can I freely colonize planets in my 'allies' HOME SYSTEM without drawing a protest?

One thing that would really liven up the game IMO would be that AI 'Allies' drag you into conflicts. If your ally is attacked, they should be requesting help. You should be REQUIRED to give help or else lose the Treaty or some other diplomatic penalty assessed. As it is now, I feel like Daffy Duck arming both the dog and cat for their war against each other. Even in the cartoon, both sides EVENTUALLY figured out what Daffy was up to and ganged up on HIM.

Oh well, I guess what is lacking is consequences for your actions. Allying with everyone and their mother should come at a price should one or more of them go to war. You should be force to choose sides. And with the possibility of being forced into a major conflict with little warning would come a requirement to maintain a standing military. This, in turn would slow down the insane advantage in expansion that a human player has over the AI who IS always maintaining a fleet of ships that it rarely uses (or uses properly at least).

None of this would require major coding IMO. Simply altering existing code and adding in a few tweaks here and there. I hate to say this, but MOO accomplished a FAR better diplomatic/race model 5 years ago! Even in regards to the way the AI fights, I think MOO/MOO2 prioritized targets and whatnot far better...of course MOO/MOO2 ALSO cheated at an insane level so pick your poison, I guess.

Its all a complicated issue and I'm willing to wait and see what comes out to rectify the situation. SE3 had some major upgrades done to it and I'm hoping that SE4 will receive the same treatment. Yes, it is kind of disappointing that as it is now, the AI feels 'cardboard' at best, but the game SYSTEM is so well done that I'm sure it will be worth the wait.

Talenn

[Courageous]

Easy to fix: the AI should perform a target-
value-to-defense ratio, weighted perhaps by
distance to target, and attack the most
valuable targets that also happen to be the
most weakly defended. Attacks could be formed
using some heuristic: for example, the AI
might prefer an X:1 attacker-to-defender
ratio and once this ratio is achieved or
projected, other targets are considered. This
form of AI is actually VERY EASY to implement; more difficult is projecting what
the human player might do and developing an
appropriate response.

C//

[Voidhawk]

I'm pretty much with the majority here. I've stopped playing altogether until the AI gets fixed (finished?), but I'm still having fun making a custom shipset for my race in the meantime.

I can't wait to play this game again for the first time after the AI is patched. It's just too much like shooting ducks in a barrel right now. Ah well, thank goodness for Paint Shop Pro ...

[Michou]

OK, let's face it :

1 - The AI must cheat if it is to stand a chance.

There is to much variables in this game. An AI will never reach the level of a human player. That's why AI are so good in chess : There is not much variables. It is easy to implement routine to make an AI very good in chess. Do you thing there would have been a challenge in Civ2 and MOO2 without cheating ?


2 - Malfador must still fix the AI.

It must stop doing stupid things, like :

- ignoring minefields,
- ignoring human player colonization in area of influence
- making suicidal attacks (that's not hard to implement !)
- Not using the latest technologies (ECM and sensors on attack ship, etc..)
- You all know what I am talking about...

AI must be made #1 priority.

Is it useful to add new feature (ex. Drones) if humans are the only one who are going to use them ?

Multiplayer is way too long for most players. Anyway, is it fun playing with 2 friends and 10 AI if all AI's are just waiting to be invaded ?

As for Talemn and all others doing Mods : Keep up the work, we will get there someday ! And please share your wisdom

Malfador : Congratulation anyway ! considering the resources that you had to make a game, it is one good game system.