Concerns about lack of Tutorial and Price of Game

[Black Cat]

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
There is a doc file with the demo though its pretty bare bones. There is a thread pinned near the top of this forum, something about "lost people", which has much more

Bare Bones is an understatement on the Doc file and the Newbie Sticky just about gets you to start a Game.

I really would like to buy this but need to know if there is more in it then Make Army-Fight Battle-repeat.

Let me try some specific questions.

Is there any kind of a economic model in the game ?, in other words do you build up resources to produce Gold or is that fixed in each province ?

How do resources & gold effect what you do ?

Is this Game really designed for H to H or is the AI reasonably decent ?

Thanks

[Taqwus]

Black Cat --
The economic model's not that complicated compared to, say, Civ. Basically, there's gold and resources.
Gold: shared in a nationwide treasury. Generated by taxpayers, certain magical sites (including mines; you can't build mines, but can get them randomly), alchemy (turn fire, earth gems into gold), random events. Spent on units (generally reflects rarity/training), unit maintenance, building construction (temples, labs, castles), province defense, repairing damage from random events.
Resources: local. Used in province and adjacent provinces if they have castles. Does not accumulate -- use 'em or lose 'em. Required for training most units; amount reflects equipment e.g. knights require a lot, barely-armed militia very little.
Castles: Improves resource utilization (locally), sucks in resources from neighboring provinces, boosts tax income. Boosts related to administration value. Also permits production of national troops, with exceptions (underwater/land difference).
Taxes: Rate defaults to 100%. High taxes result in less taxpaying population due to people fleeing, starving, and being killed by your patrols after they revolt. Low taxation levels may ease unrest.
Order, production scales affect taxes, resources respectively as well. Growth may, don't recall; it has a long-term effect on no. of taxpayers as well. Heat/Cold affect taxes negatively if your people don't like the local conditions.

There's no investing in, say, trade guilds or loans or banking centers or what-not. It's not a civil-development game.

[mr.white]

Personally I think it's a little silly to be so worried about piracy. A low profile game like this would probably not be spread extensively, so it would be a big hassle for most people to find it...Given that it's just not worth it to take such steps.

Even ignoring the above - do you see ANYONE ELSE AT ALL in the game industry who release demos without an extensive readme? Hell, most have a tutorial.

I suspect that you are hurting sales badly by not including the instructions to actually play the game in the demo.

[ November 11, 2003, 23:33: Message edited by: mr.white ]

[Gandalf Parker]

They seem to have realized that. I believe that the Shrapnel guy has said he pressed them for the release Version. And programmers never have been known to do good docs.

They are taking our suggestions here to heart. They are watching the growth of the "newbies" sticky thread. They are planning to add things like starter gods and a partially started game so that all the menu options will work for a new player. The needs for newbies to learn this game are being laid out by those best able to do it. Newbies who are learning the game.

[Black Cat]

Taqwus

Many thanks for the details.

I just ordered the Game and should you ( or anyone else ) have the time, I would be interested in knowing what kind of decisions you make other then Army based ones in a Game turn.

[licker]

Originally posted by Black Cat:
Taqwus

Many thanks for the details.

I just ordered the Game and should you ( or anyone else ) have the time, I would be interested in knowing what kind of decisions you make other then Army based ones in a Game turn.

Other decisions ehh...

Well most everything is related to Commanders, the only things not Commander related are raising province defense and fiddleing with taxes (though upping taxes usually means you need an army to patrol later). The magic system doesn't require armies, but it does require your mages to devote their turns to research, forging, summoning, or empowerment. You can also use priests to preach and build temples, mages to search (priets can search too) or build labs, and anyone can build a fort.

Most of the turn will be spent assiging your commanders to their tasks, and scripting your armies and commanders for any offensives you wish to undertake. Deciding what magic school to research, and how many mages to pump in research points is important too, but that doesn't usually take much time.

The economy is really quite abstracted (which is a good thing to many people as it cuts out micro quite a bit) there isn't much to directly do about it (other than tax and patrol). Most of the game will be trying to implement your grand strategy (be it based on magic or might or somewhere inbetween) and making adjustments to that strategy as you stumble on new obsticales or opportunities.

Bit of a ramble there, sorry...

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by Black Cat:
I would be interested in knowing what kind of decisions you make other then Army based ones in a Game turn. [/QB]

Hmmmm lets see. I guess they are all based on how to best use whats available. Should I boost defense points for local militia (avoids keeping an army there). Which provinces should I protect most? Should I use my magic gems to create magic items? or should I use gems to cast spells such as summoning creatures? Should I use gems to boost the magic casting levels of one of my mages? What areas of magic should I research? Should I focus on one type to rush toward a particular powerful spell that I feel I can use effectively? Should I spread my research out to more than one area instead of focusing? Is it time to spread my dominions? Should I build a couple more temples? Is there any province which can give me excellent troops or mages or priests which I have to build a castle, lab, or temple there to get them. Should I keep my mages researching new spells or send them out to search for magic sites to boost my magic gem income? Should I start a fight with nation A while nation B is so close to my capital? Should I send nation C some helpful items (like sending holy lances to Marignon because they are holding Ermor in check knowing that those lances wont hurt your troops when you have to fight Marignon later). And Last but not least, is this game already decided to the point that instead of finishing it I should start another game because Im really eager to see how a different nation with different units completely changes the way I need to play the game?

Ummmmm thats all I can come up with for now.

[SurvivalistMerc]

I just figured I'd agree with everyone else here.

The only reason I'm shelling out the money (when I can get them to tell me where to mail the check or do a phone order) is because they did the demo. That was a very shrewd marketing ploy IMO.

I know what it's going to be like...and I like it. It's not like buying the contents of a "mystery box."

[NTJedi]

The only part about the demo I did not like was the 40_day limitation. There have been some games in the past that I did not purchase because I felt I didn't get to playtest enough of the game.

[Richard]

No one was pressed to put the game out. The demo documentation was just overlooked when the demo was put out, we have a new one in the works.

And our games are all over the warez scene, trust me I know that. We do have to balance how much we give away, because what stops the pirates is having to buy the game to get the manual.

But like I said a new demo is forthcoming in the future.