Random Opponents map anyone?

[Gandalf Parker]

I think I have ironed out a way to offer random opponents for those who wish it. The end result would be a new directory on my site which would daily have a new .map file for each nation. So downloading ctis.map would give you a game where you can play ctis against an unknown number of enemys, each set at an unknown level of AI difficulty.

Is that too much? Too little? I could also add .... given unknown starting benefits, possibly playing an unknown theme, and with unknown alliancesto other AIs. Also unknown gods? Pretenders that you cant make for yourself in the game or leave it for dominions to make their gods the way it does now.

Random game settings also? Independent strengths? magic sites frequency? Events frequency?

Should I cheat? Give them things that no player could possibly get? Units, sites, equipment.

What map would you prefer? Probably best would be one that came with the game unless someone wants to offer one. Aran? Eye? that way it might work for the demo also. Or my favorite Orania?

Should the range be from 1 to 17 opponents?

Should I add one more .map to the mix where all 17 nations have been randomized. That would mean that no matter what nation you chose to play on that map, that you ALSO would be playing with whatever settings the randomizer had written to the file for that race.

Are there any of the things I did in the Dominions 1 random games that you would add?

And if anyone with a compiler would like to offer it, we could shift the whole thing from a directory on my site to being an executable you can download and choose which things you want for yourself

I thought about making this a poll but I didnt like the result. Id rather see how the conversation flows. Maybe a poll later on for things like map choice.

[ November 21, 2003, 14:46: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[Karacan]

I'ved already been a huge user of your random map Dom I mapfiles.

I'd very much like the "Gandalf's Daily Challenge" (once my copy arrives... *grmbls*), and I like the idea that you set up a map for a specific nation to be played. Though I'd like to build my god and nation settings from scratch, myself - I wouldn't enjoy very much having to play with a setting "not my style".

I think 2 to 6 opponents for Aran, 3 to 10 for the Eye. For demos. Haven't seen the other maps yet, still waiting for my copy that apparently shipped more than a week ago. Keep it random. Random opponents, random opponent themes. But I wouldn't let them cheat... maybe make several maps a day, one "normal" and a "hard" one....


Great work, anyway. You're one of the reasons that keeps replayability for DomI up for me.

[Gandalf Parker]

I guess I can start on this then and modify it as other people "vote" on what they prefer.

-- "Is it possible"?!? Of course its possible, its a computer. Some things are just more effort than they are worth.

[georgevtucker]

Gandalf --

The random # of enemies is a good idea (more realistic -- is that silly to say about a game with zombies and underwater nations?), but I'd add in an option to choose AI difficulty. If I got into a game where one Impossible AI ate 5 Easy AIs, I'd get cranky.

How about one based on your Random Circus concept, with tons and tons of fortifications, temples, labs, and monoliths guarding provinces?

Seems to me a Generator, while lots more work, has a lot more usability than a single map -- unless that one map's ubercool.

Thanks for all your hard work.

[Gandalf Parker]

OK the first run is in place.
http://www.techno-mage.com/~dominion/Dominions2/

Choose the nation you want to play, create a new game with only you as the human player of that nation. You dont need to select any other opponents though you can if you want to make sure for example that Ermor plays.

Seems like a bare game though. Just some opponents, their AI settings, and a chance of some alliances against you? I think more randoms are definetly in order. Any opinions? Suggestions? Complaints? Do you think I should mix in the stuff from Poke_Eye.map? (by the way, Poke_Eye.map in this directory now changes daily also)

-- People dont realize that EVERYTHING gets paid for. Even people who do free things are looking for something. Pay up or lose it.

[ November 21, 2003, 17:55: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[PvK]

Gandalf, this sounds great! I wouldn't recommend committing to one-a-day. Id say just do what you think is enjoyable, taking what requests and suggestions you like.

Scenarios set up with some human attention are bound to be more interesting than automatic ones, especially if you tweak upon what the automated routines come up with as a base.

I think it's interesting to choose games with certain combinations of nations present or absent, and then to add some interesting sites and independents that match them.

For instance, a map without Atlantic, Ry'leh, or Ermor, and with little of value underwater, would focus the action on land. You could also have a game with Atlantic vs. Ry'leh, and the rest of the world all independent - Atlantis needs to save the world from the horrors from beyond, but the rest of the world has to be convinced that Atlantis should save them.

Another idea is an Impossible Ermor on the far side of the map from the player, and some Easy AI's, so the player has to save the world from a quickly-growing Ermor.

Or a Nordic theme, a Mediterranean theme... etc.

Adding a few independents who are difficult to crack, but are sitting on a nice site, is nice. Placing sites appropriate to each nation can be nice too.

I dunno - there are tons of possibilities. I'll not place any requests yet though, because I've several games I have too little time to finish already.

When I start a new one, though, I'll definitely come to your site looking for a nice scenario.

PvK

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by PvK:
Gandalf, this sounds great! I wouldn't recommend committing to one-a-day. Id say just do what you think is enjoyable, taking what requests and suggestions you like.

Im afraid that I dont have the attention span needed to "make" maps. I can commit to doing fresh ones every day because I can program them in BASIC and then put them in my servers nightly-run routine (I have my own server). Pros and Cons. In a dozen lines of code I ran randomize a map for each race and add things to every one of the 243 provinces if I want to, but the results run hot and cold. Thats why its best if my stuff runs daily so that if someone gets a junky one they can snag another one tomorrow.

Scenarios set up with some human attention are bound to be more interesting than automatic ones, especially if you tweak upon what the automated routines come up with as a base.

I agree. And I hope someone does some. For Dom1 I ran new random maps everyday and some of them were very interesting. Good starting point for a manually created game.

Im hoping the same happens here. If I toss out random stuff then someone might take one and build it up abit, then re-release it. Wont bother me any if someone does.

I think it's interesting to choose games with certain combinations of nations present or absent, and then to add some interesting sites and independents that match them.

Again I agree. Feel free to do that. I get about as far as coming up with one interesting province then my mind wanders off. Im told I should develop a caffeine habit like the rest of the world.

I was working on an idea to do something like that with a program but in Dom1 it wasnt possible. There was no easy way to find a proper province. Now with Dom2 you can find a water province, or a swamp, or mountains so the additions make sense. I was going to create a lot of little text files with interesting provinces. Dragons Den, Gaia's Garden, Whispering Woods, Sea of Sirens. Then when I have a really large collection I could insert them into some of the night-run maps.

Unfortunately the ideas were mostly built around also having random TGA's to work with. Im hoping someone updates the DomMap generator.

Another idea is an Impossible Ermor on the far side of the map from the player, and some Easy AI's, so the player has to save the world from a quickly-growing Ermor.

Or a Nordic theme, a Mediterranean theme... etc.

Or one built around dragons or vine creatures or heat or cold or were's or demons or horrors or titans. Once you realize that ANY unit can be a pretender, or a commander, or a troop it really opens up ideas. Doing the Greek Gods or an Army of Dragons could be interesting. Ideas I have no problem with, its doing more than just thinking about it thats hard for me.

When I start a new one, though, I'll definitely come to your site looking for a nice scenario.
PvK

Sounds good. You might see something that cries out to be filled in alittle more and re-released.

[PvK]

Oh, interesting - I hadn't realized the sorts of things you were doing (I think maybe I still don't). I thought you were taking the existing maps, modding some properties and setting up scenarios without mentioning which AI empires were included.

What kind of algorithm do you use to generate the random maps?

PvK

[ November 21, 2003, 21:42: Message edited by: PvK ]

[Gandalf Parker]

There is alot about that in other threads here. Look back thru them for ones with "Random Circus" in the subject title.

[PvK]

Ok, I shall. Thanks.

PvK