Battle Afflication

[General Tacticus]

Originally posted by PrinzMegaherz:
You made a good point. Battle Pretenders may increase your initial expension, if he does not die by accident.

And I dont want my pretender to be invincible. However, I like the Idea of the bad guy hiding in some dark castle to recover from his wounds, until time comes for his revenge. If you like to read fantasy literature, you will find these things a common theme. I think a pretender, a nearly godlike being, should have that little difference from your normal commanders.

Well, my pretender in my Mictlan AAR did just that (it's not yet in the AAR). But he did it by ordering all ressources diverted to researching enchantments, recruiting a level 2 Nature priest, empowering him twice while having another forge a +1 nature item for him, then having him cast Gift of Health, with just a tiny bit of serious overpaying to make sure it does stick. Oh, and he had his feather serpent buddy cast Dispel at the same time, on the stupid spell that had given him the affliction, also with extra gems. Worked quite well...

And to celebrate, he kicked man out of North America That was not revenge, just fun. Revenge is coming also, against the real culprit, with a bit more spice in it...

[ January 08, 2004, 14:31: Message edited by: General Tacticus ]

[Thilock_Dominus]

I just wanna say thanks for the replies. Now I got something to work with how to get rid of battle affliction and how to avoid it. But still I disagree about the balance issue. As a pretender you risk your life out in the battle-field and/or get battle afflictions, fair enough.You get and easy start as someone stated. While the magic pretender have a little hard beginning at the game but later on gains great magical power to use, logical enough. But later on in the game it gets more and more risky for the battle pretender engaging bigger and more powerfull enemies, while the magic pretenders are at minimum risk to get themself injuried or killed.I know, I know...your pretender can be called back from the dead or you can with some nice things avoiding battle afflictions. But where is the risk becomming a powerfull spell-caster hiding behing the thick wall??? At that point there are more good reasons to choose a magic pretender rather than battle pretender, IMHO. Yeah, the magic pretender are risking to loose its magic points in a battle, but who will risk their powerfull magic pretender in a offensive battle? few will do. So I don't see that as a valid argument.
Not am I asking to get immortality to dragons or boost the battle abilities or anything else. Behaps some mind afflictions to the spell casters (I know, not very popular idea)

In my humble opinion dragons are not frontline fighters. They are artillery support that should be placed on fire closest with a suitable screen of immune troopers. If you want frontline fighters go with the Titans or Undead rather than the Beasts

It's about taste I think. I won't let my muscle machine of a dragon waste its strength on shooting while it could do more damage flying down to the enemy supporter troops or pick out the leader(s) or another pretender. Also in hope to bringing some fear to the enemy. It's my style of playing and it's fun for me (braveheart syndrom)

with best regards
Thilock_Dominus

[SurvivalistMerc]

I'm not sure that I would mind if all pretenders rid themselves of afflictions simply by staying put in a fortress and using the "rid affliction" order for 8 or so consecutive turns. That would be 24 turns to get rid of these 3 afflictions...so it doesn't seem unbalancing. But it's all a matter of taste. I'm not a huge fan of SCs myself, so I think it's nice that there is some balance to them in terms of affliction and certain spells.

[Teraswaerto]

Maybe a new ability might be added to some pretenders (or to new pretenders, one can hope ), which would make them heal afflictions over time like immortals do, only without the immortality.

[SurvivalistMerc]

I would hope that it would not be as quick as immortality, which is very quick indeed.

And I would hope that it would not happen whilst they accompany their armies and participate in battle...only as you previously suggested when they go to their dark citadel and rest and heal gradually (over a number of turns) from their wounds. Resting wouldn't be researching, either. And they would be behind stone walls like those mages you are so envious of.

[Kristoffer O]

Originally posted by Teraswaerto:
Maybe a new ability might be added to some pretenders (or to new pretenders, one can hope ), which would make them heal afflictions over time like immortals do, only without the immortality.

Some do. Great Bulls, Ancient Kraken and perhaps some more. In the 2.06 Version this is displayed. With the modding tools it is also possible to give this ability to any unit you like.

Uhm,

Combat pretenders have a different role, arguably more benefitial than the 'stay at home' kind.

There are multiple ways to rid yourself of afflictions. And you can always get your pretender back; albiet without as much magical skill. Though if you take the talentless Wyrm, he can come back good as new only after 40 points of calling.

Combat pretenders help forge a game early, while rainbow/caster pretenders shore up the mid/late game for certain nations.

I am of the opinion that Rainbows are less 'useful' because when I start taking over a rainbow nation it's already all searched for me So I get all his goodies. Especially those back ones that he can't defend well. Whereas if you lose a combat pretender more often than not that place can be filled with another SC while you get your old one back at the expense of a few turns of priests.

[Wauthan]

Don't think one should turn afflictions into something trivial. Just how a priest would go about to heal a missing eye, arm or even head is beyond me. That a certain group of priestesses can do just that is mindboggling enough.

That said Zen brings up a very good point. When I create a supercombatant, besides the Vampire Queen, I simply take no points in magic. With enough priestly power it's even better than being immortal since the pretender bounces back good as new. Ready to be outfitted with fresh artifacts.

In my humble opinion dragons are not frontline fighters. They are artillery support that should be placed on fire closest with a suitable screen of immune troopers. If you want frontline fighters go with the Titans or Undead rather than the Beasts.

[General Tacticus]

Originally posted by PrinzMegaherz:
As it is, the game is unbalanced.
Mage pretenders are always useful. You can leave them in your capital to research and cast, or you can send them into secure areas to search for sites. Anyway, their usefullness does not decrease by doing their job.
On the other hand, combat pretenders will get afflictions over time, there is no way to prevent this. This makes them less usefull in most cases.

In my oppinion every pretender, at least the not human ones, should have some kind of immortal ability that makes them heal their afflictions themselves over time.

What you say is partly true, however you combat pretender has probably boosted your starting expansion far above what any mage pretender could do. And he probably cost you less design points to begin with.
A mage pretender is a long term investment, he won't pay off until after quite a bit of time. The combat pretender starts paying at once, but will need some help to stay useful. With the right equipment and the right magic support, you can keep using him to the end. Two different kind of investment, two different rewards, also different risks. It all balances out.

Oh, and I would LOVE to be able to send my mage pretenders with my main armies. They could do wonderfull things on the battlefield. But they would not survive. So instead, I leave them at home, doing what two or three normal mages could do just as well (research spells, search for magic sites). In a sense, I get less out of them than you do out of your combat pretender, much less even untill they are ready for the big ritual spells. And you could easily pull back the combat pretender from your armies at that time, empower him a little, give him good items, and make it an extra-tough pretender.

So I do not think pretenders are unbalanced. Each ones has strength and weaknesses, and that is balanced by their cost. There are even a few "immortal" ones. You just have to remembers that pretenders in this game are not yet Gods ! They can't win you the game by themselves, they are not invincible; they can just help along their chosen people to spread their faith.