Is Vanheim generally considered overpowered? Just asking, I dont claim to know.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Osium:
My pretender fatigued out rather quickly, an oversight on my behalf it was a Nataraja using 4 enchanted swords a pendant of luck. I over buffed and ended up at like 80 fatigue it did nice damage but 3 turns later it was sitting still getting swamped.

It also helps if a pretender you're trying to use as an SC has somewhat more endurance than a schoolgirl, because it's not much use if its only action in a battle is to pass out. You need a minimum reinvigoration level equal to twice your melee encumberance to be worthwhile.

[Teraswaerto]

Or a Wraith Sword. No good for a trampler though...

[Jasper]

Originally posted by Osium:
I was one of the unfortunate victims. I was Arco and was using Hyps and Elephants.

My pretender fatigued out rather quickly, an oversight on my behalf it was a Nataraja using 4 enchanted swords a pendant of luck. I over buffed and ended up at like 80 fatigue it did nice damage but 3 turns later it was sitting still getting swamped.

Your opponents army cost quite a bit more than yours, elephants suck against Van, and you can put better equipment on your Nataraja.

Vs. Van I'd stick with Hoplites screening mages, perhaps with a bunch of javelin armed infantry. Tangle Vines and Earth Meld are effective against high defense units, as are evocations. Area effect spells are nice against Glamour.

For the Nataraja, have a Mystic cast Body Ethereal and Luck on him, equip a Wraith sword (or two!) plus 2 weapons with good defense, add some decent armor and reinvigoration, plus regeneration and quickness if you can get it. Against Vanheim make sure you have lightning resistance and boosted attack to hit Van. Season according to what spells the Nataraja can cast.

The one nice thing about Vanheim is they can make their own little slayers. With an appropriate blessing, a Vanjarl during a storm can cast Mistform. When equipped with a Wraith Sword and mistformed, they are hard to hit and hard to kill. Try with a Water9 Blessing for effect.

[Pocus]

Originally posted by Zen:
The one nice thing about Vanheim is they can make their own little slayers. With an appropriate blessing, a Vanjarl during a storm can cast Mistform. When equipped with a Wraith Sword and mistformed, they are hard to hit and hard to kill. Try with a Water9 Blessing for effect.

Well, hard to hit except with spells, you are piling on evasive parameters (high defence, mistform), but still the unit has something like 12 HP. A single star fire hiting will earn him a one way trip to heaven.

Sure But they have a decent MR. Not saying they are invulnerable. Just that they can make someone's life quite hard. That's what fodder troops are for Plus the fact that when they have quickness they can hit the rear fairly decently.

[Osium]

My nataraja was self buffing quickness ethereal body and ironskin, then attacking rear. She had chainmail of displacement and some flying boots I was able to pickup as well as the luck pendant. I was trying to scrounge for a regen or reinvig item, I just couldnt come up with one. I thought the chainmail sounded cool, but im not exactly sure what it did if anything ;p

It's easy to say don't use elephants but I had no idea what he was using till it was too late so I had to make do ;p I thought my tactic was sound, just not heavy enough numbers wise. With another 2 units of Hyps/elephants It would have been pretty close.

Valks imo are just an extremely potent unit. Using blade wind sounds good in theory but because the valks fly, and he has them set to attack rear, I guess I'd need to bring in a massive horde of useless units stick them in the back somewhere and just accept any FF as a neccesary evil ;p For some reason it reminds me of Braveheart and the "send the irish, arrows cost money" ;p The trick is to get them to attack stuff they can't kill super fast, or just give them ALOT of fat to chew while you deal with the rest of the attack.

Im wondering if serpent dancers might be a viable counter, with a water blessing they'd have high defence. They are much cheaper allowing me to build more of the dancers for absorbing the valk attack, and a massive zerg of regular infantry for frontal attacks. Sauromancers terroring it up to disperse his other stuff. Go for high domain, that would allow me to eventually push out a fair wack.

I have another question, when using a fire blessing, on say a spider or a knight, does the fire armor piercing attack also apply to the hoof/fang attacks? High defence negates the armor piercing aspect of fire9 bless, but I wonder if the +atk gained from it would overcome the defence.

[PvK]

Yep - fodder time. Let the Vans massacre 100 units - but let them be cheapos - undead, provincial defense, tribals, militia, etc. Not expensive Hypaspists and elephants. Try to get them to engage a fresh unit of competent troops only after they're tired out from killing the cannon fodder. May be difficult to choreograph. Lots of cheap archers are a good idea too, though they could also end up killing your cannon fodder if you try to coordinate tactics.

PvK

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by Osium:
My nataraja was self buffing quickness ethereal body and ironskin, then attacking rear. She had chainmail of displacement and some flying boots I was able to pickup as well as the luck pendant. I was trying to scrounge for a regen or reinvig item, I just couldnt come up with one. I thought the chainmail sounded cool, but im not exactly sure what it did if anything ;p

Nothing. I thought it gave mirror image, but actually it just gives a defense bonus, while most armor gives a defense penalty. IMO it should give mirror image.

[Pocus]

As Arco you have prime access to - somehow - precise combat spells (star fire, mind burn, soul slay). A mystic cost 3 times a Valks, but can cast quite a lot of these spells anyway.

You can also buff the bodyguards around your mage by etheralizing them with the same mystics.