Primitive cultures

[dogscoff]

Don't think that could be inmplemented without Hard Code changes.

The motivation to conquer them rather than glass them is the population (which may breathe a different atmosphere to your own remember). Oh, and that some of us like to play "ethically" as well=-)

When I initially though of this idea I imagined it as a kind of ruins planet that gave you population instead of tech. I have all sorts of other grand plans to do with population (see the current expansion pack thread) and this fits right in with them.

Besides, you wouldn't glass a whole planet of defenceless Ewoks would you? You heartless bast@rd...

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"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh, I think so Brain, but how are we gonna teach a goat to dance with flippers on? "

[Nitram Draw]

Me? Glass poor defenseless people? What kind of despot do you think I am?

[rdouglass]

I like it...especially if you consider it a 'Population Ruins' kinda' thing. It could give you the aditional atmosphere 'ability' at a low cost (when compared to 'non-primative' AI). ...a Cache of 'slave resources' if you like...

DISCLAIMER: As long as you can get the AI to use it also....

[dogscoff]

Well, it would depend on the AI. Most computer players go for complete extermination, but some of them seem happy to accept surrenders. They do tend to attack homeworlds on first contact though, so I'm thinking a "primitive" AI would hope to encounter a human player before a computer one.

It would be interesting to see how people treated the primitives. For example if I encountered one in my space and I didn't need the population/ planet too badly I would probably get a treaty with them and let them live out their lives independently in the shelter of my empire. (assuming the win conditions allowed it). After all, they're not hurting anyone...

Sometimes I think I'm too nice to be an megalomaniacal interstellar dictator.

***Something else just occurred to me - Once the hard work of creating a "primitives" mod was done, creating primitive races would be easy - no shipsets, no ship design files... just a race portrait, an army graphic and some work on the diplomacy files.

I might have a go at this mod - S_J, do you mind if I use Pirates and Nomads as a template? I'm new to this modding lark

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"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh, I think so Brain, but how are we gonna teach a goat to dance with flippers on? "

[dogscoff]

Primitive cultures:

I think this could probably be modded without any hard code changes required. It's only a small addition but I think it could add a nice bit of flavour to the game:

They would probably need a special racial trait (a bit like the "Pirate" | "Nomad" | "Normal") and they would only be able to access the "primitive" technologies below.
"Primitive" techs should not be available to "normal" empires.
"Primitive" players should NOT be able to accept any technologies, ships or planets. (So you can't trade them 400 organics for a fleet of battlecruisers, even though it would be really funny=-)
All the primitive technologies should be available from the beginnning of the game.

Primitive technology tree
=========================
Facilities:
Primitive farm: Generates 100 organics per turn.
Primitive mine: Generates 100 minerals per turn
Granary: stores 2000 organics for an empire
Quarry pit: stores 2000 minerals for an empire.
Primitive resupply facility: Tribes people give fresh food and supplies to friendly ships. (we won't ask where they get the depleted uranium shells and spacecraft grade fuel from=-)

Units: (Think of the Ewok battle from Return of the Jedi!)
Warrior Army: A group of warriors armed with primitive weapons. (A small troop unit)

Troop components:
Warrior leader: A warrior general who leads an army into battle.(acts like troop cockpit)
Hand weapons: Simple tools for hunting and hand to hand combat. (troop weapon, low range, low cost, really low damage)
Simple missile weapons: Bows, slings and spears. (troop weapon, medium range, low cost, really low damage)
Stone thrower: Pre-industrial siege weapon (troop weapon, medium range, high cost, low damage)

Obviously these primitive cultures would pose no threat to other empires, but they might slow you down a little if they occupy a strategic planet and you don't have many troops. (Unless you don't mind bombarding millions of defenceless tribespeople from space) Also, they could be useful allies for trade and resupply and once conquered they would supply a useful population boost.


Opinions? Improvements? Anyone think they could mod this?

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"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh, I think so Brain, but how are we gonna teach a goat to dance with flippers on? "

[Nitram Draw]

I would be cool if each of the primitive cultures had a special tech that lead to a unique tech tree. Then there would be reasons to conquer them as opposed to glassing them.

[dogscoff]

I was right. I _am_ too nice. The mineral / organic output from a primitive world would only be a few thousand at most - hardly sems worth the effort of subjugating them. I'd rather settle for that warm glowing feeling you get from obeying the prime directive=-)

I quite like the idea of their output being so low as well - you can see on the treay grid who's desperate for resources because they have a trade alliance with the pre-industrials.

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"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh, I think so Brain, but how are we gonna teach a goat to dance with flippers on? "

[chewy027]

Having promitives would be cool and add more diversity to the universe. Maybe something like 5 primitives in a small map, 10 in a medium, etc. Hey the more races in a game the better. This would also add a new class to the game. You got your main empires then the neutrals and finally the primitives. If you could have racial traits carry over, then you could really make some of the primitive races worthwhile. Imagine a spacialized primitive race of commandoes or miners. That would be pretty cool.

Thoughts?

[dogscoff]

Exactly. Thanks Chewy. The only problem with having 5- 10 of them (which would be great) is that they take up an empire each, and I think you can only have around 20 per game max. Ideally you'd have 5-10 native races and *still* have room for all your favourite spacefaring empires=-) Until they are hard- coded I think we'll just have to put up with it.

As for the racial traits... I would *love* to have each species retain it's traits/ characteristics no matter which empire they work for - for example, if I take over a planet load of Phong, they suddenly become better at combat. Does that make sense?

If populations reatined their abilities, I would have to make a choice when colonising a methane intel compound, for example - methane breathers or the ones with +18% intel gathering? Or maybe a mixture of the two?

I would really like to see population handling developed in this game. Read the "expansion pack" thread (and numerous older threads) for my other ideas on this subject.

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"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh, I think so Brain, but how are we gonna teach a goat to dance with flippers on? "

[chewy027]

maybe it should be suggested to MM to implement the primitives. or at least up the number of races allowed per game.

Thoughts?