Castles and Citadels and stuff

[Spacepain]

So far, in ALL of the games I've played, I've chosen the castle as my fortification. However, I'm beginning to wonder if certain fortifcations are more appropriate to certain nations.

Is there a preference per race, or am I safe just sticking with castle through and through?

[Norfleet]

The castle is an excellent choice for a fort: It has a modest cost of only $450, only 50% more than the watchtower, which gives it a modest build time of 3 turns. It has an excellent admin of 40: Only the Fortified City does better, and the Fortified City costs $750 and 5 turns! Unless the map is exceptionally small and/or you have no plans to build many other fortresses, or you absolutely, positively, must have the metric assload of supply that the Fortified City grants, the castle is a very good choice. Pointwise, the cost is the same: 80 points. You certainly can't go wrong with that. The only drawback of the castle is that its defense value is not a great asset, but nor is it absolutely wretched. Besides, who plans a strategy around being sieged? Any castle will buy you a minimum of one turn, and no castle will hold out for any real length of time against real opposition. A higher defense will just make it more bothersome for YOU to take it back!

[Arryn]

In one of the various threads on playing a specific theme (I forget which theme and the poster, may have been Zen), it was recommended that the el-cheapo zero-DP fort type be used so that you can quickly and (relatively) cheaply pop up forts all over your borders both to channelize the enemy and to allow recruitment of national units right at the front. This works best for nations that do not need to maximize resource gathering (ie: whose main limit is gold, not resources).

Other than this particular example that was cited (I do wish I could recall what thread it was), the Castle which Norfleet mentions is pretty much the best all-around buy.

[Sandman]

I'm a big fan of the fortified city. It's got the best design point to admin ratio, and the high cost and build time is offset by the fact that you get one for free at the start of the game.

[Murph]

I haven't found any reason to use anything else. As far as point cost/price and value is concerned, I don't really see a decent alternative, unless you really have sucky troops, then you want something with higher defense, because you'll be hiding a lot.

[Graeme Dice]

I happen to really like the wizard's tower for nations that have powerful national mages, and fairly useful troops. This is because it is both cheap and quick to produce, but also provides a decent administration rating. I do often go with just the standard castle however, as it is a good compromise between the various types.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Murph:
I haven't found any reason to use anything else. As far as point cost/price and value is concerned, I don't really see a decent alternative, unless you really have sucky troops, then you want something with higher defense, because you'll be hiding a lot.

Well, if you have really sucky troops, hiding is only going to prolong the inevitable slightly, at best: Meanwhile, it'll be that much harder for you retake your own fortress with your sucky troops, since the casualties you'll sustain while establishing the siege will likely prevent you from being quite as effective in bLasting your way in and storming the place under fire. Those high-defense forts may very well prove counterproductive, since with bad troops, it's very likely you'll lose ground before you can rally enough of them to retake.

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
I happen to really like the wizard's tower for nations that have powerful national mages, and fairly useful troops.

Yeah, but the wizard's tower is a major ouch in the national point Category, and isn't THAT much faster to build than the castle is.

Yeah, but the wizard's tower is a major ouch in the national point Category, and isn't THAT much faster to build than the castle is.

What? It's 200% Faster. I categorize it as "Much Faster". It's also 150 gold cheaper, thats 33% cheaper.

Maybe it doesn't suit your playstyle, but so does anything that isn't played on the world map with VQ's and Ermor.

I consider the Wizard's Tower to be significantly faster, and cheaper, which means you put them up even faster than normal especially considering the mutability of a game.

But that is only because I don't mind 40 Dpoints for what it provides.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Zen:
What? It's 200% Faster. I categorize it as "Much Faster". It's also 150 gold cheaper, thats 33% cheaper.

Maybe, but the only time I find a wizard's tower is really sufficiently faster is when you're building it by magic with the Wizard's Tower spell. Anything else just doesn't really satisfy a "need it done yesterday" situation. 2 turns, 4 turns....eh. I can afford to wait 2 turns to get a proper castle with a better 40 admin. If I just need a fast castle because all I need is mages, I could just use the Mausoleum or something instead. I'm not saying the Wizard's Tower is something that nobody would EVER take, like, say, the Mountain Citadel, but it *IS* a little steep.

Maybe it doesn't suit your playstyle, but so does anything that isn't played on the world map with VQ's and Ermor.

Hey, now that's just insulting. I *DO* play other nations from time to time. And what's wrong with the World map? I *LIKE* the world map! It's an excellent map for innumerable reasons, among which includes the fact that I can explain what's going on to somebody who isn't in the game without laboriously taking screenshots.

I consider the Wizard's Tower to be significantly faster, and cheaper, which means you put them up even faster than normal especially considering the mutability of a game.

But that is only because I don't mind 40 Dpoints for what it provides.

I can understand your perspective on the matter, given that your attitude towards my World map preference is clearly less than favorable: You undoubtedly play primarily on rush maps where a long-term, more patient view of the world is not valued much, and paying an extra 40 points for a tower you can slap up now, now, now may very well pay off better in such a situation than a longer view of things.

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Maybe, but the only time I find a wizard's tower is really sufficiently faster is when you're building it by magic with the Wizard's Tower spell. Anything else just doesn't really satisfy a "need it done yesterday" situation. 2 turns, 4 turns....eh. I can afford to wait 2 turns to get a proper castle with a better 40 admin. If I just need a fast castle because all I need is mages, I could just use the Mausoleum or something instead. I'm not saying the Wizard's Tower is something that nobody would EVER take, like, say, the Mountain Citadel, but it *IS* a little steep.

10 Admin is 5% Income and only in provinces in which you build a castle. If you want to use a Mausoleum you get 25 Defense, which can be battered down by a militia with a toothpick. As well as costing you 40Dpoints and 5% income. There are situations where certain castles are usable. But I find in the variance of games and playing, that the Wizard Tower is fully worth it's cost. As much if not more in large games as small.

Hey, now that's just insulting. I *DO* play other nations from time to time. And what's wrong with the World map? I *LIKE* the world map! It's an excellent map for innumerable reasons, among which includes the fact that I can explain what's going on to somebody who isn't in the game without laboriously taking screenshots.

I never said anything was wrong with the World Map. I said your perspective and resulting comments might be skewed by your particular playstyle. Making definitive statements like "THAT much faster" are derived from you playstyle. I consider it much faster because you can build 2 in the time it takes to build 1 castle, that's "Much Faster" to me, by the definition of th word. Just like "cheaper" is defined by it costing less. If you mean to say "In my experience, where I play in this playstyle, 2 turns and 33% Gold is not that big a deal" you can and definitely have a point for it, but saying it's not much faster is untrue.

I can understand your perspective on the matter, given that your attitude towards my World map preference is clearly less than favorable: You undoubtedly play primarily on rush maps where a long-term, more patient view of the world is not valued much, and paying an extra 40 points for a tower you can slap up now, now, now may very well pay off better in such a situation than a longer view of things.

Well then your view would be skewed. I play all types of games from big beastly long ones that I'm still playing 3 months later, to quick rush games, to VP games, to DominionWin Games, so I have a varied look on things. But if you want to lump yourself into the 'long term and paitent' and me into the 'rush' so you can try to prove a point, it is not proven.

I actually prefer Wizard Towers in the "Long term and Paitent" games because as the game progresses the use of Raiding is more and more apparent and Single or Teamed SC's flying in cannot siege a fortress in all reality as well as nulls the advantage of Ghost Riders. But of course that might be my 'rush' mentality talking.