Marignon CotS - What's the hook?

jaif · #1 March 23rd, 2004, 01:26 PM

I'm missing something. I started a game w/the CotS theme, and while I like it I'm missing how it's any better than the base theme, other than trading sailing ability for superior mage-priests.

What's special about CotS? Do they get a better spell later on like Tien Chi?

Btw, if I could petition for something in the next patch, as a newbie it would be putting these tidbits in the nation selection screen. So when (for example) I click on ulm, see a special theme called 'Black Forest', I can click on that and see that they can summon vampires and then be able to see the actual spell so I can plan my pretender accordingly.

-Jeff

fahdiz · #2 March 23rd, 2004, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaif:
I'm missing something. I started a game w/the CotS theme, and while I like it I'm missing how it's any better than the base theme, other than trading sailing ability for superior mage-priests.

Why does a modded theme have to be "better" than its base theme? Marignon already has two other non-vanilla themes...more than any other nation. CotS is there for flavor, and for a fun time on maps with lots of water and few or no water nations.

Teraswaerto · #3 March 23rd, 2004, 04:36 PM

CotS has better mages.

Graeme Dice · #4 March 23rd, 2004, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Teraswaerto:
CotS has better mages.

That's debatable. They have air 2 and astral 2 instead of fire 3 and astral 2.

Chris Byler · #5 March 23rd, 2004, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fahdiz:
Why does a modded theme have to be "better" than its base theme?

Because it costs design points.

If it were a 0 point theme, then it shouldn't be better or worse than the default theme - just different. But a 50 point theme needs better units or commanders to make up for the tradeoff you will have to make in pretender, fortress, scales or dominion strength to pay for those 50 points.

Also, if a theme has scale requirements that are bad for that nation (or bad in general, like Turmoil - still hurts more than the points it gives), then it should get more powerful theme units/commanders to make up for that too. This is why Blood of Humans is (almost?) universally regarded as weak - it has *worse* units than standard Abysia, for a point cost *and* an unfavorable scale requirement.

fahdiz · #6 March 23rd, 2004, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Byler:

quote:
Originally posted by fahdiz:
Why does a modded theme have to be "better" than its base theme?

Because it costs design points.

If it were a 0 point theme, then it shouldn't be better or worse than the default theme - just different. But a 50 point theme needs better units or commanders to make up for the tradeoff you will have to make in pretender, fortress, scales or dominion strength to pay for those 50 points.

I see your point, yes. However, I guess I'd say that perhaps you're paying for the Sailing ability on your commanders in a nation which typically has quite little access to Water magic unless the pretender takes it.

Then again, I haven't played much CotS at all, so I probably shouldn't even comment.

Teraswaerto · #7 March 23rd, 2004, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:
Originally posted by Teraswaerto:
CotS has better mages.

That's debatable. They have air 2 and astral 2 instead of fire 3 and astral 2.

2 air 2 astral 1 random actually, which, IMO, is better. They also have the 1 air 1 astral chartmaker for only 90 gold, which makes for a good communion slave.

jaif · #8 March 23rd, 2004, 06:48 PM

I probably shouldn't have said "better", but maybe 'unique' 'different' or 'special'. Right now it's different mages and sailing ability on many of the commanders. Personally, I'm not impressed with sailing ability when there's water breathing and amphibians in the game, but that's probably a lack of experience on my part.

-Jeff

Edit: posted too soon. Let's say I made an 'island' map (imagine earthsea archipelago or greece/med or whatever), what races would generally be viable? Obviously CotS, ermor, atlantis, r'lyeh, and Vanir. Am I missing any that would work well?

[ March 23, 2004, 16:50: Message edited by: jaif ]

fahdiz · #9 March 23rd, 2004, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaif:
Edit: posted too soon. Let's say I made an 'island' map (imagine earthsea archipelago or greece/med or whatever), what races would generally be viable? Obviously CotS, ermor, atlantis, r'lyeh, and Vanir. Am I missing any that would work well?

Well - Man, vanilla Marignon, and really any nation with relatively plentiful sacred units would work well *if* they happened to take Water Cult.

PvK · #10 March 24th, 2004, 03:30 AM

Sailing is a very different advantage from underwater ability. On some maps, it can be very useful. Not just for islands and hops over water to otherwise-blocked continents, but also when there are seas which border on many land provinces - this can let you sail an army a land-distance of many provinces in one turn. So the value can depend a lot on the map.

PvK