Minor Logical Inconsistencies

[Alexander Seil]

While the following are not exactly "bugs", it seems that something might have been overlooked in the process of creation of these units(understandable, given the enormous number of them in the game):

Abysian Salamander: This unit, judging from its' description and similarity to Pythium's hydras, should be capital-only. Nevertheless, it's not. Apparently, Abysian warlocks succeded in discovering the secrets of deep-core drilling that allow for easy access to geothermal heat-sources and lava anytime, anywhere.

Lava Warriors, Warlords, Beast Trainers and, I think, Guardians of the Pyre -- all of these are size 3. Doesn't make much sense, especially since other Abysians are not.

War Lobster and the underwater Arch Mage: Both size 6, which is completely unexplicable.

Freak: Again, size 6? I could understand 4, but 6? And the thing can trample too...meaning it can trample elephants and some unfortunate Pretenders.

Moloch/Prince of Death: Both size 5...should be 3 at best. Moloch is a pre-packaged flying SC, so with a trample item it can kill a good-sized Jotun army in two turns.

[ April 04, 2004, 00:31: Message edited by: Alexander Seil ]

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Alexander Seil:
Lava Warriors, Warlords, Beast Trainers and, I think, Guardians of the Pyre -- all of these are size 3. Doesn't make much sense, especially since other Abysians are not.

Those are the biggest of the biggest and the best of the best of the Abysians is probably the reason.

War Lobster and the underwater Arch Mage: Both size 6, which is completely unexplicable.

The Lobster is size 6. What's wrong with that? There's a lot of size 6 tramplers out there.

Freak: Again, size 6? I could understand 4, but 6? And the thing can trample too...meaning it can trample elephants and some unfortunate Pretenders.

Why would you use your 10 hitpoint freak lord as a combat unit?

[/QB]Moloch/Prince of Death: Both size 5...should be 3 at best. Moloch is a pre-packaged flying SC, so with a trample item it can kill a good-sized Jotun army in two turns. [/QB]

Two turns? That's a serious overexaggeration since he won't be able to make more than two tramples a turn.

[Alexander Seil]

You might not want to use a freak for combat, but you CAN -- and it CAN trample, that's what's important, really.

As far as Moloch/Prince of Death goes, yes, perhaps I exaggerated a tiny bit, but nevertheless. Size 5 flying trampler (if so equipped) is a bit overboard.

Lobsters shouldn't even be able to trample...I can't imagine something as slow as a lobster (and a very, very large lobster at that) trampling anything. Plus, doesn't that give Atlantis a bit of an unfair advantage over R'lyeh?

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Alexander Seil:
You might not want to use a freak for combat, but you CAN -- and it CAN trample, that's what's important, really.

But so what really? Even an elephant or mammoth with nearly a hundred hitpoints will die when it gets surrounded by troops.

As far as Moloch/Prince of Death goes, yes, perhaps I exaggerated a tiny bit, but nevertheless. Size 5 flying trampler (if so equipped) is a bit overboard.

It's a pretender, it's supposed to be powerful.

Lobsters shouldn't even be able to trample...I can't imagine something as slow as a lobster (and a very, very large lobster at that) trampling anything. Plus, doesn't that give Atlantis a bit of an unfair advantage over R'lyeh?

It's a lobster that's the same size as an elephant. I can't imagine it not trampling anything it came across. Lobsters are not slow either, they move very quickly when they want to, and especially backwards. Atlantis does have a bit of an early game advantage thanks to war lobsters, but it's not a game-breaking one thanks to the paralysis of the Illithid's.

[Alexander Seil]

Well, if the Freak Lord can be called largely useless, I suppose there's no reason to make it size 6 and trampling.

As for Moloch, it's already extremely powerful, even without giving it trampling ability. Plus, not every Pretender is an SC...most of them are fairly weak.

Now, about the lobsters...yes, that would work, but
A)It costs only one half of what an elephant costs for Arcoscephale and one-fourth in resources, even though (besides perhaps void summons) it is the largest amphibian unit available to either of the underwater races. A bit of a good deal for a trampler.
B)I just realized that it's actually size 5, which invalidates some of my previous points...but why is the Arch Mage size 6 then?

[Teraswaerto]

Have you tried using the Moloch as a trampling SC? It doesn't work as well as you might think. For one thing, tramplers get exhausted very quickly, and his lowish hitpoints are a liability when surrounded by enemies, as tramplers tend to be.

[mlepinski]

Originally posted by Alexander Seil:

Now, about the lobsters...yes, that would work, but
A)It costs only one half of what an elephant costs for Arcoscephale and one-fourth in resources, even though (besides perhaps void summons) it is the largest amphibian unit available to either of the underwater races. A bit of a good deal for a trampler.

I believe that the Atlantis Lobster is "Aquatic" and not "Amphibious", which helps to balance the unit.

- Matt Lepinski :->

[Gateway103]

Originally posted by Alexander Seil:
B)I just realized that it's actually size 5, which invalidates some of my previous points...but why is the Arch Mage size 6 then?

I think it is size 6 because it rides on a lobster (size 5). So you can imagine this being a special Lobster for the Pretenderthat is bigger perhaps.

Or, this may be a balance mechanism, to prevent the underwater Version of Arch Mage from being trampled, and allow it to trample all other smaller units, including Lobsters (suggesting an uber size Lobsters as the Mage's steed...)

Just guessing... It is perhaps worthy of a note that all underwater-only Pretenders are size 6 except Nerid at size 5 (not counting ghost kings, wyrm, lich, and master lich because they are available for land nations as well)

-Gateway103

[DLC]

if freak lord is size six it's a good pretender cause of it immune to wind ride w00t.

[Kristoffer O]

Guardians of the Pyre should not be size 3. They do not have two morningstars as lava warriors.

Lava warriors need room to simultaneously swing their two morningstars.

War lords are exeptionally large. A legacy from the 'children of flames' of ancient times (more on this at a later date).

Drilling seems a bit wierd, but it is probably the heat of the dominion that causes rock to melt and moats to fill with lava and not deep core mining. I havn't visited the border cities of Abysia.

Freak lord is now size 5 (2.11).

Moloch has wings. A human would not fit in the same square. He would be fanned and flinged into another square if he tried to hide under the wings of the Moloch. A vaetti or Hoburg Champion on the other hand is short enough not to be flipped in the head.