Problem with berserk/turn 50 combat resolution...

[love crime]

So, I'm playing a little commander-heavy, jotunheim bless strat (9 earth, 9 nature), and I chug along nicely, and am about to assimilate c'tis's home fortress.

I siege the castle, figuring it to be quick and easy... but turns out there are 170 or so dispossessed spirits hiding inside... my poor giants get paralyzed in the entryway, dragging out the siege. By about turn 20, my forces route... however, thanks to nature blessing, the vast majority of my army is berserk and continues to rush the gate. I've only lost 2-3 troops (the ones that ran are safe), and by turn 48, their army breaks and runs... however c'tis's fountain pretender remains, and my forces don't get to it by that magical turn 50.

Now, what is the resolution? All my forces are dead. Almost 20 commanders, and a load of neifelheim giants and woodsmen... I had provinces to run to, open both before and after combat... yet at turn 50, all my forces magically turn to corpses... 1-2 turns before they were destined to have finished off the enemy's routed army/commanders.

Is there some rational behind this combat resolution that escapes me... or is it a bug/issue that should or will be patched?

It was VERY frustrating for me to say the least... castles are annoying enough to siege as it is against paralyze (my only consolation is that the latest patch gave paralyze a finite duration)... but this turn 50 death to berserkers tears it.

Does anyone else think that at the very least, turn 50 berserk troops should be forced to flee, instead of being slaughtered?

[Norfleet]

Yeah, the turn-50+ autokill is a great annoyance, especially since it's easily possible for a battle to Last longer than 50 turns with enough men involved.

[HotNifeThruButr]

About the spirits,can't you use Vaettir or indies to distract them?

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by HotNifeThruButr:
About the spirits,can't you use Vaettir or indies to distract them?

No, that generally doesn't help the problem. The Vaettir/indies will simply die/become paralyzed/clog the entrance, which won't help.

Plus they'll likely die before you can become berserked, causing an auto-rout.

[ April 12, 2004, 22:33: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

[Taqwus]

I wouldn't mind if the rule were changed to something like auto-rout / auto-kill only once a certain number of turns have elapsed without the death (not counting death if rebirthed due to Phoenix Pyre, but deaths leading to resurrection by item do count as none of those are potentially infinite) of a unit that was on the battlefield at the start, or the expenditure of a gem (either of these being basically permanent). That way, as long as permanent damage is being done, the battle continues.

(For a really epic feel, lower the light level gradually and reduce stats accordingly, then raise it again if it Lasts long enough. )

[HotNifeThruButr]

Or, you could get more missile units like cheap Woodsman Bowmen to kill the spirits since your melee are too paralyzed and clogged to do it.

[Chris Byler]

This and similar experiences show that 50 turns is not enough.

Illwinter, please raise the turn limits to auto-rout at turn 75, battle ends at turn 100. This and many other battles with this problem would have reached a genuine resolution by then.

Allowing attackers left on the field at the expiration of the time limit to auto-flee instead of dying would help too, but if the time limit is raised to where it is hardly ever triggered it shouldn't matter.

Time limit battles aren't nearly as uncommon as they should be.

[love crime]

Well, my problem was not really figuring out how to kill dispossessed spirits in a siege... that was just the unfortunate circumstance of the story which led to my real displeasure... namely that almost my entire army was killed not by spell, sword, or even cowardly flight into enemy territories, but by a strange and injust game mechanism.

I also agree too many sieges are resolved by the 50 turn limit as the previous poster said... but my main problem is with the way berserkers are just killed at the limit, regardless of what that limit may be.

Just as a related aside, anyone else ever deal with the frustration of routing troops caught in the gates of a castle, unable to retreat (because of unrouted troops trying to attack behind them), unwilling to fight, and generally acting as a wall dragging the combat to turn 50 (assuming they happen to be large/hard for the enemy to kill)... makes one wish the combat ai would allow friendly routers to pass by... or at least fight back when cornered.