Treaty question

[LeTharg]

I'm considering proposing a treaty of subjugation or protectorate as an alternative to destroying a weaker opponent. These treaties treat the sides differently but I can't tell from the screen whether I'm the one doing the subjugation or being subjugated.

Is it always the stronger empire (in terms of score?) that does the subjugating or protecting regardless of who initiates the treaty? Or do I have to get the other side to initiate the process?

[Will]

It's always the one with the higher score that takes the dominant position. Back in beta I wondered about that, so I made a quick test game, let the AI grow for a while, and when I came in contact, I proposed Protectorate, and I became the protectee, and the AI the protector (took a few tries though, and a few gifts ).

You can tell which end of the treaty you're on by looking at the empires with the "Tariff" option, if all the numbers are zero, you're on the wrong end of the treaty Can also tell by looking at the scores, although I don't know what would happen if the stronger somehow became the weaker...

[Baron Munchausen]

Are you sure about this? If you have a lower over-all score but much more military strength you cannot force someone into a treaty as the 'tribute' payer? Have you tried blockading some planets and issuing a DEMAND for a treaty of subjugation?The 'Propose treaty of subjugation' option might mean that you want to be subjugated because you are proposing the treaty. I've only used this treaty a few times, though.

[LeTharg]

It seemed a bit confusing so I tried an experiment. I created two empires and had both the high score and the low score propose treaties of subjugation. In each case, the empire that proposed the treaty was dominant and the empire that accepted the treaty was subservient. It didn't seem to depend on score.

[Aussie Gamer]

I have someone else tell that as well. It the person offering the treaty that become the dominate empire.

The other diference are in the manual. The biggest difference is that you get more resources in "sub".

[Will]

Hmmm... It was a while ago, I might have been mistaken. Oh well, AIs wouldn't accept either treaty unless you are a lot bigger, and humans would have to be pretty dumb to accept

[HiveLordJim]

WHAT!
Will,
What is so dumb about accepting a protectorate or subjugation?
Is it better the player have his empire destroyed than be subjugated? that doesn't make sense.
Why not have a larger empire protect you - if you think they will hold up their end of the bargain.

BTW
Protectorate should NOT be considerd a lesser level of subjugation.

[Q]

quote:

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Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
Are you sure about this? If you have a lower over-all score but much more military strength you cannot force someone into a treaty as the 'tribute' payer? Have you tried blockading some planets and issuing a DEMAND for a treaty of subjugation?The 'Propose treaty of subjugation' option might mean that you want to be subjugated because you are proposing the treaty. I've only used this treaty a few times, though.

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How can you demand a teaty?? It's not listed under the options for demands. And if you just use a demanding tone it probably won't change much. I propose the treaty rarely, but just recently when I used it the AI refused. The next turn I demanded surrender and he accepted!

[Baron Munchausen]

quote:

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Originally posted by Q:
How can you demand a teaty?? It's not listed under the options for demands. And if you just use a demanding tone it probably won't change much. I propose the treaty rarely, but just recently when I used it the AI refused. The next turn I demanded surrender and he accepted!

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Use the Demand/Request Warn menu, and choose "Want a tribute". It's a bit odd to think of a treaty as "tribute" but treaties are available as demands under that option.

[Q]

Baron thank you very much. I would never had this idea to ask a treaty as a tribute by myself! Very clever.