Pretender Cowardice?

[Cainehill]

It's well known that certain pretenders run like hell as soon as their auto-comrades have routed or died - the Moloch, for instance, flees as soon as his imps have died.

But in a test I just made, the Lord of the Desert Sun kept going even after his lions bit the dust, with no other friendly units (I'd sent him solo, to check something).

Any idea why, apparently, some pretenders flee like mice, while others do not? No berserking involved (though the LotD had Nature 9, that doesn't affect him), no magic items, no immortality. Spells cast were regeneration, field shield, and then funeral dirges, after the 40 barbarians quickly ate the 4 lions and then the Lord.

[Norfleet]

I think it strongly depends on whether the monsters in question spawn as yours, or as "special monsters". For instance, the Wraith Crown seems to create "special monster" skeletons, that, when slain, merely produce a "Special monsters are routing" message, and have no effect on you. Did the LotDS produce this message when his lions bought it? If so, the Lord of the Desert Sun is a much more attractive pretender chassis, since he lacks the consummate cowardice of other "accompanied by X" chassis.

[Gateway103]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
I think it strongly depends on whether the monsters in question spawn as yours, or as "special monsters". For instance, the Wraith Crown seems to create "special monster" skeletons, that, when slain, merely produce a "Special monsters are routing" message, and have no effect on you. Did the LotDS produce this message when his lions bought it? If so, the Lord of the Desert Sun is a much more attractive pretender chassis, since he lacks the consummate cowardice of other "accompanied by X" chassis.

Don't the Wraith Crowns just create skeletons at beginning of battle, aside from etherealness and increase undead leadership? (Launch game and check) Yes they do. Now if you mean displaying "Special monsters are routing" only after all the skeletons are slain... nope, never seem that, despite witnessing quite a few times of the Wraith Crown skeletons being wiped out, and left my Bane Lords all alone to fend for themselves (I field them solo in my SP games). Only time I have seen that message is with the Ashen Angel from Manifestion (maybe Earth Attack and Ghost Rider may yield similar things, haven't used those spells much lately).

I did notice that, on a few occasions when this happens, that my Bane Lords actually retreated (they have flying boots, so being surrounded didn't matter). Yet at other times, they kept on fighting, eventually routing the enemies. This is with 2.11 also. So I don't know what's the deal with the retreating behaviours on auto-summoned troops...

Just some observations

-Gateway103

[ May 04, 2004, 06:57: Message edited by: Gateway103 ]

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Gateway103:
I did notice that, on a few occasions when this happens, that my Bane Lords actually retreated (they have flying boots, so being surrounded didn't matter). Yet at other times, they kept on fighting, eventually routing the enemies. This is with 2.11 also. So I don't know what's the deal with the retreating behaviours on auto-summoned troops...

Bane Lords don't have perfect morale, so they DO eventually bug out if the battle turns really ugly, but they don't seem to auto-rout as a result of the Wraith Crown skellies.

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
I think it strongly depends on whether the monsters in question spawn as yours, or as "special monsters". For instance, the Wraith Crown seems to create "special monster" skeletons, that, when slain, merely produce a "Special monsters are routing" message, and have no effect on you. Did the LotDS produce this message when his lions bought it? If so, the Lord of the Desert Sun is a much more attractive pretender chassis, since he lacks the consummate cowardice of other "accompanied by X" chassis.

Nope, there was no message about routing. In three battles, all the lions died without routing. (In the third, the LotDS also died without routing. Happily, this was just a test. )

[Cainehill]

Turns out that if the lions die in battle, everything's okay and the LotDS continues fighting.

But if the lions rout instead of dying, the LotDS also routs.

[Norfleet]

That could explain the Wraith Crown, too. Skeletons never rout, they just die.

[PvK]

Perhaps same as Moloch imps too, since imps can rout.

PvK

[Arralen]

Wait - where's the logic?

normal troops die - normal commanders route ..

Lions die - LotDS figths on ..

Imps die - Moloch instantly retreats !!

Somehow I can't see the pattern ...

[quantum_mechani]

Originally posted by Arralen:
Wait - where's the logic?

normal troops die - normal commanders route ..

Lions die - LotDS figths on ..

Imps die - Moloch instantly retreats !!

Somehow I can't see the pattern ...

I think the moloch would continue to fight as well- if ALL the imps died in one turn.