My mod idea - comments, insight, and criticism welcome

[Duncanish]

One thing I liked about this game was the fact that alot of the nations were based on real-world cultures, then adapted to a more fantasy setting. Following along this same idea, I've been tinkering with a nation based roughly along the lines of various Native American nations. But, the fantasy twist, it's a nation of shapeshifters. Fans of the White Wolf book line, Werewolf: The Apocolypse will recognize all of these things, as it's drawn from their line.

As for units, the nation will have a mix of both human and shapeshifter troops. I plan for most of the human units to have little armour and somewhat primitive weapons (mostly spears and bows), and something like the Tribal Cavalry, but a bit stronger. The werewolves (Garou, as they're called) will have no armour and simple swords, spears, and a special type of armour-piercing bow (it's designed to be used by a nine-foot tall killing machine; methinks it would punch through most armour). There will also be a line of berserker Garou with big two-handed weapons. For a sacred unit, I was thinking of another berserker, but wielding two magic broadswords (klaives, in the material).

As for commanders, I was thinking of two mortals: one Chieftain, one Shaman (1 Nature, 1 Random). A flying spy (Corax; the were-ravens). An uber-stealthy assassin (Ratkin; were-rats obviously). An average priest (Gurahl; were-bears). A good mage (the Theurge; would have Nature 3, but I can't think of additional paths that would mesh well and keep them unique). A better priest, with a patrol bonus (Philodox; they were the judges and mediators of Garou society). And the Ahroun, which would be a strong mini-SC with a magic broadsword.

Needing a bit of input from the general community on this. Odds are I might change the names of the various species and classes, to avoid a most unhealthy lawsuit. I think WW is a fairly understanding company, so it might not be necassary. So, thoughts on units? Commanders? What would be a good pair for Nature magic that would still keep the race unique, but also fit along the lines of a Native American shaman?

[ May 05, 2004, 03:20: Message edited by: Duncanish ]

I'll hold off from responding in depth until you have more into the ideas of what you want to do, don't want to interrupt the creative juices.

Though I do have to say, White Wolf company and associated game/worlds. You could have done much worse in picking one to build from

[Arralen]

Please, please do us all a favour and leave that bull**** from white wolf alone.

DOM2 nations are based on either
a) history
b) historical legends and myths
c) educated fantasy from people who know a lot about a) and b) and have a lot of common sense.
Neither can obviously be said about the white wolf writers.

Shurely they claim, Ars Magica is based on an alternate history, and they're right up to a point. Alas - only check the names from the other white wolf books, e.g. those you gave in your posting: They're a hodgepodge of cool sounding syllables stuck together and read like a random name list ranging from french over latin to greek and Storm Constantine.(Nothing even near the native american nations AFAIK) And the names aren't even the worst part.

Read up in the "Tribunal of Rome"-supplement: They described "secret passageways where the thieves etc. move through" under Venice there (exact wording escapes me at the moment, but i could look it up from a friends book if someone insists). I mean - how stupid, ignorant and stereotyped could one get, or be?


So don't get me wrong - if you want to do a complete were-nation based on native american myths, by all means do it - but do it right !

So dig up the relevant myths (names will come for free), put everything in a working order - and keep one thing in mind: the resulting nation shoundn't only look different than others, it should play different in a least one main aspect. Watching your troops change form on the battlefield wouldn't be enough to qualify.


Thinking about it - if you can get along without the native american part (those white wolf jokes wouldn't have fit there anyway, unless you're speaking about current US college and university "history" ), why not use the Wereriders from the Witchworld series by Andre Norton?

[ May 05, 2004, 04:09: Message edited by: Arralen ]

[PDF]

Main problem I see is that it looks furiously alike to Mictlan, at least "thematically" (nation of shapeshifters inspired by Indian mythos...)

[Gandalf Parker]

Id like to see an indian nation (but then Im prejudiced since thats part of my upbringing). I especially think it would be a good format for sneaking bowmen and hit-n-run light cavalry (light cavalry with sneak? hmmmm)

I wouldnt mind seeing a white wolf mod (after all we have many book-mods in the works).

Im not so sure about a mix of both

[JaydedOne]

Originally posted by Arralen:
Please, please do us all a favour and leave that bull**** from white wolf alone.

*shrug* I disagree. I've seen a number of fans take material that was sub-par and transform it, through enthusiasm and innovation, into something far greater.

If he has a passion to mod something according to his take on the WW Werewolf mythos, let him. He's not doing anyone any favors by putting work into an alternative that reflects your tastes, not his. While I might not favor a WW mod for my own play, I can think of a number of reasons as to why seeing one developed would be productive and potentially even fun.

As for WW quality, it varies wildly, enough so that I think you overgeneralize in your condemnation of it. Some of the material out there is complete drek, but there are some real gems in the WW library. The fact that they distort the real world's historical facts in creating their World of Darkness may make them poor textbooks for history students, but then, that's not their market.

I'd prefer the topic adhered to constructive criticism and comments. If someone makes a Smurfs mod, I'm not interested. However, rather than tell them how they're wasting their time on it, if I'm going to comment at all, it'll be how to balance their Papa Smurf SC Pretender with the others in the game or something of the like. Telling them to just quit or put together an alternative army based on the far superior little people of Gulliver's Travels just takes away from the creative energy of potential modders. And frankly, I'm for as much of that as possible.

Miguel, who used to know a thing or two about White Wolf.

[Tricon]

Mmmh. Smurf mod....


Nah.

[quantum_mechani]

Originally posted by Duncanish:
What would be a good pair for Nature magic that would still keep the race unique, but also fit along the lines of a Native American shaman?

How about 2 nature, 1 astral and an elemantal random?

[Duncanish]

First of all, thanks to everyone who replied. Second, I'd like to say that I'm not stuck on the whole WW nation. I'm wanting it to be, first and foremost, a nation inspired by Native American culture. The WW were-critter part was basically me trying to think of a way to mix in the fantasy part. I didn't want them to be just normal humans, although that'd still be fine. I wanted something fantasy-ish, and immediately thought of the WW books and the Garou, with their nature-veneration and very Aboriginal society. I liked the idea and ran with it. Granted, I'm still trying to flesh things out, but I believe I have a pretty firm grasp on what I want to do and how I want them to play.

How about 2 nature, 1 astral and an elemantal random?

I considered that, as Astral is the path associated with the Heavens. But the Astral spells don't really jibe well. I also considered giving them a random of the same two elements, allowing them to use low-level summons like the elementals (spirit critters). I wanted a bit of ancestor veneration involved, but that would mean Death magic which is the opposite of a very life-centric group.