Underestimate the AI: Reap the consequences.

[Cheezeninja]

Well i was recently playing a little game as Arco, just for fun and to try out the Nataraja as a SC. I was at the point where i had accumulated a small but impressive army of about 35ish heart companions backed by a firing squad of about 8 astrologers mass casting soul slay So i rolled over the indeps for awhile and then pangea declared war on me with my funsquad right near their borders. Well i immediately made for their main army and smashed it. About 100 satyrs with centaur support. About now your probably what unit gave me my comeuppance... some pans maybe? Some Claymen? Maybe some Kithaironic lions? Nope, it was harpies. Harpies. I engaged a force substantially smaller than the one i had just smashed (without losses, though i didnt mention it) and was caught completely with my pants down when their harpies turned out to be on good old Dom1 'attack commander' orders. Or at least that what i believe they must have been on, because instead of making for my wonderfully resilient decoy damage sponge heart companions (who were there for that very purpose) they waited 2 turns and jumped right into my astrologers, killing them all in one turn and causing my companions to rout.

Whoops

anyone else have some fun stories of the same variety?

[Norfleet]

Well, either that's "Attack Rear" gone horribly right for a change, or the claims that the AI doesn't cheat are, in fact, false.

[Cheezeninja]

Oh i know for a fact the AI can use orders we cannot, because i've 'aquired' AI units with strange looking orders already programmed in before. I dont remember if it was enslave mind and then GoR, or the tien chi hero reincarnation bug, but i distinctly remember wondering what the heck i was looking at when it said some gibberish like "A 2 COM" in the orders. I actually have very little recollection of what the orders looked like, only that it was something I couldnt order.

[Norfleet]

So in other words, the AI does, in fact, cheat.

[Lex]

i think its more appropriate to say that Humans have a handicap by not getting access to those special orders. If the AI could talk, it would be saying Humans cheat because they are creative... or a much more likely explination is that the harpies wasted two turns on whatever and then attacked the rear (which is quite smart). You should have left bodyguards to surround your casters.

[Sindai]

Originally posted by Cheezeninja:
"A 2 COM"

"Attack to commanders"?

Of course, it's probably more likely to be a simple alphanumeric identifier with the COM standing for computer, but the coincidence is remarkable.

[ August 01, 2004, 05:17: Message edited by: Sindai ]

[Cheezeninja]

Originally posted by alexi:
i think its more appropriate to say that Humans have a handicap by not getting access to those special orders. If the AI could talk, it would be saying Humans cheat because they are creative... or a much more likely explination is that the harpies wasted two turns on whatever and then attacked the rear (which is quite smart). You should have left bodyguards to surround your casters.

Every time I have set MY units to attack rear they actually attack the rear section of the frontmost group of units. They dont actually jump back to commanders, except occasionally when there is a large body of troops there as well. And i have NEVER seen my troops actively seek out commanders fromt the start. Unlike Ashen Angels and other nasties, who invariably seem to attempt immediate evisceration of commanders.


It didnt actually say that.... i just dont remember what the exact order was. It was something strange and abbreviated like that, and i believe with numbers. I wish i could remember, but its been awhile and i didnt get too worked up about it at the time. It just seemed to me like something that someone had written as a reminder to themselves, but didnt bother to explain fully because they knew the consumer would never see it.

[Ryukenden]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
So in other words, the AI does, in fact, cheat.

If you look at it with the idea of "equal share," then you could consider that the AI "cheats." However, look at it with this (or maybe these) idea(s):

A human can be "creative," while an AI can only run on what it is programmed with (common AI, atleast). A human learns new things every second of its life, while the AI is either unable to learn without additional programming, or learns slowly. So, doesn't it sound right that the scales be evened by giving the AI additional commands as a tradeoff for "creativity?"

Note: I'm not against yelling out "That's so ]f-bomb}ing cheap!" nor "The comp is ]f-bomb}ing cheating!" Just don't believe it when rage isn't clouding your judgement.

Another Note: In some games (barely any of which are strategy), the AI is kinda cheap.

[Edi]

Originally posted by Cheezeninja:
Every time I have set MY units to attack rear they actually attack the rear section of the frontmost group of units. They dont actually jump back to commanders, except occasionally when there is a large body of troops there as well. And i have NEVER seen my troops actively seek out commanders fromt the start. Unlike Ashen Angels and other nasties, who invariably seem to attempt immediate evisceration of commanders.

IIRC, units with "attack rear" orders must make a morale check or something like that every time they pass a stack, and if they fail, they will attack the rearmost units of that stack. On a battlefield with e.g. 7 stacks of AI units, they need to pass all of those checks if they are to attack the very rearmost units (typically the commanders). Failure to pass the check causes the units to attack the rear of the closest enemy stack. Every unit in a stack must make the check separately, so this is why you sometimes see some cavalry units breaking ranks from their squad and go after something they should leave alone.

Looks like the AI got very lucky with the harpies. Of course, if you had all of your HCs in a single stack and had just them and the Nataraja, the harpies only needed to succeed once to get at your astrologers. Having several squads mitigates the problem with flyers that attack rear.

Edi

[Kristoffer O]

There was an 'attack commander' order in Dom1. It was removed as it was far too powerful. It seems likely that the AI order selection wasn't fully updatded.

If it isn't just a lucky 'attack rear' do you want it gone or do you think it is OK if the AI comes up with this kind of stunts from time to time?

I think it has been reported that Fang, the troll archer hero, shoots at commanders as well. In this case I'm not for a change, but in normal battles it might be a bit unfair, at least unless you expect it.