Water Magic

[RedRover]

Instead of posting this material to the Dom3 Wishlist directly, I’m posting it as a new thread and dropping a note into the Wishlist. Feel free to comment on these ideas here.

This is a collection of ideas suggested by: 1) the thread to cut down on clam-hoarding by providing alternative uses for Water gems and 2) the threads on providing more scope for “aquatic theme” Water magics (as opposed to “cold theme” Water magics). In particular I’ve taken a shot at providing concrete suggestions for Dom3 design and testing.

Water magic tends to be indirect and subtle or defensive. So those looking for low-to-mid-level flash-bang combat spells won’t find them here.

SPELL SUMMARY LIST

Con
Jellyfish Swarm Con1, W1
Razor Fish, Con2, W2
Reavers from the Deep, Con 7, W4
Razor Fish Tide, Con 8, W4

Alt
Ocean of Air, Alt 7, W6
Curse of Atlantis, Alt 8, W7

Evo
Sea Squalls, Evo 3, W3
Monsoon Rains, Evo 5, W3
Cooling Zephyr, Evo 6, W3
Global Haze, Evo 8, W5

Ench
Sargasso Sea, Ench 5, W5N2
Water Way, Ench 6, W4
Dome of Arcane Reflection, Ench 7, W5

Thaum
Combat Flow, Thaum 2, W1S1
Eldritch Fog, Thaum 4, W3
Combat Tide, Thaum 5, W3S1
Whispering Clams, Thaum 5, W2S2
Thaumaturgic Whirlpool, Thaum 7, W4S3

Blood
Sea Mark, Blood 2, B1W1

NEW SPELLS
The first section is new spells. The second is adaptations of other people’s spells. The Last is a short list of new magic items.

The spell description includes information the players get out of the manual. The design notes show what’s going on with game mechanics. I do think that much of what a spell does should only be hinted at.

Curse of Atlantis: Ritual. Alteration 8. Paths: W7. Cost: 100 Water gems.
One of the great ancient forbidden incantations, this spell reclaims a coastal province/island for the sea. The target province permanently sinks into the sea amid great disruption. This spell can be cast only from an underwater laboratory.

[Design notes: This spell changes the designation of the coastal province from land to sea, permanently—this cannot be reversed. Since the curse causes the whole province to sink from below, domes do not affect or stop it. A full 80% of the population dies, as do all units and commanders without water breathing ability (survivoring units rout into adjacent friendly provinces). Province structures (Temple, Lab, etc) except Fortresses are destroyed. Province defense is set to 0. Corpse count is set to 0 after this. Unrest is set to 200% after this. Growth scale is set to +3 after this. The converted province is permanently marked with a blue magic effect marker (i.e., a dome marker). Neighboring sea provinces lose 10% population and gain 30% unrest. Land provinces neighboring the new sea province gain 20% unrest and 5% population, and become coastal provinces.]

[Note that no other water spell is a path W7, they all max out at W6. I think a 7 is warranted from a thematic viewpoint, testing mileage may vary.]

[My take on this one is that it’s a late game “weapon of mass destruction” that is useful only in limited situations. In most cases, I think if you are powerful enough to use this, you probably don’t need it. The exception may be a rich target within a province or two of the coast. However, the existence of the capability should mess with the minds of the land power players nicely.]

Cooling Zephyr. Battle Enchantment. Evocation 6. Paths: W3 Costs: 200 fatigue/2 Water gems.
A mass of cool, wet air envelops the battlefield. The effects of hot climate are relieved and fire damage is reduced. Friendly troops are refreshed. This spell immediately counters and is countered by Heat from Hell (En 6). This spell cannot be cast underwater.

[Design notes: Any positive province heat scale is reduced to 0 for this battle. Fire damage is halved. Friendly units receive Reinvigoration +1 and Morale +1 for the battle.]

[It might be fun if Dom3 had a mod tool command to set up “mutually destructive” spells.]

Global Haze: Global, Evocation 8. Paths: W5. Cost: 100 Water gems.
A great cooling haze rises from the oceans, blanketing the world and reversing the effects of the Second Sun global spell (Ev 8). The spell energies drain each other, mutually destroying both global effects.

[Design notes: Disable this on maps with no oceans. BTW I know that the current undersea nations have easy access to Astral gems to go for the dispel, but this is a sure kill and future undersea nations may not always get good Astral magic, so…]

Reavers from the Deep: Ritual. Conjuration 7. Paths: W4. Cost: 20 Water gems.
An independent band of amphibious raiders is magically influenced to attack and ravage the target coastal province. Surviving reavers will stay in the province and continue to pillage it until they are destroyed. This spell can be cast only from an underwater laboratory.

[Design notes: The reavers are 20 Shamblers (#206) led by a Shambler Chief (#207). The chief has a 1% + 1%/Luck scale chance to have an Implementor Axe. The reavers are independents hardwired with Pillage orders. They are immune to the Lure of the Deep spell. Reavers only attack coastal provinces. The ritual does not function when Sea of Ice global is in effect. “Tiamat whispers, and they obey…”]

Sargasso Sea: Global, Enchantment 5, Paths: W5N2. Cost: 40 Water gems.
Thick beds of seaweed choke the seas. This global spell prevents the Sailing ability from operating anywhere in the world. The effect Lasts until it is dispelled or until the caster dies. This spell can be cast only from an underwater laboratory.

[Design notes: Currently this would really only effect Vanheim, Marignon CotS, and the Pocket Sailing Ship item, although I think likely that in Dom3 sailing will become more prominent.]

Sea Mark: Ritual. Blood 2. Paths: B1W1. Cost: 1 Water gem.
This spell grants up to 5 Blood Slaves in your laboratory water-breathing ability, permanently.

[Design notes: If less than 5 are in laboratory, then all are marked.]

[Other variations: Fire Mark grants fire resistance=100 (Fire gem). Ice Mark grants cold resistance=100 (Water gem). Sky Mark grants shock resistance=100 (Air gem). Snake Mark grants poison resistance=100 (Nature gem).

[Sea Mark opens up the possibility for an underwater magic site that produces sea-marked Blood Slaves, should we get a Water/Blood theme.]

[Or wrap the whole thing into a spell called Slave Mark, with a secondary popup that lets you pick the type. And maybe add a checkbox to automate it–in other words, all slave marks will be of a certain type until the box is unchecked. Also consider an “Automark Now” checkbox, which marks all your Blood Slaves in laboratories (choice of “all” laboratories or the one “currently highlighted”), and instantly deducts the appropriate number and type of gem. Oh, and add an “undo” button for this function as well.]

Sea Squalls: Ritual. Evocation 3. Paths: W3. Cost: 10 Water gems.
Sailing is not possible into, out of, or through the target province. Squalls Last for one turn. The target province must be a sea or coastal province. The sea squalls appear to be a random event.

[Design notes: Squalls are surface only and don’t affect undersea operations at all. Active squall areas receive a “magic operating” symbol whether magical or natural. Squalls are automatically disabled by the global enchantments Thetis’ Blessing and Sea of Ice (and the appropriate popup appears if you try to cast the ritual while either of these is running).]

[Consider “natural” seasonal squalls. Check each month for each sea and coastal province: 5% in spring/fall, 2% in winter, and 0.5% in summer.]

Thaumaturgic Whirlpool: Ritual. Thaumaturgy 7. Paths: W4S3. Cost: 20 Water gems.
The spell creates a vast magical whirlpool in a target sea province. In addition to its physical destructive power, this maelstrom absorbs and cleanses the area of death-based, supernatural, and otherworldly essences. This spell can be cast only from an underwater laboratory.

[Design note: The concept is to use the same general targeting as Fires From Afar, but base damage is 12, with specials Armor Negating, and x3 vs. demons, devils, angels, magic beings, and undead. Chance to destroy non-Fortress structures, 10% each. Kills 2% of population and adds 10 unrest to target province.]

[This spell is great cleansing spell from previous times whose function was to filter and rid the primal seas of baleful and alien magical essences. While it wreaks physical damage on normal creatures, those of magic, undead, or supernatural nature are sucked into a bottomless void and supposedly expelled to some extra-dimensional otherspace.]

SPELL IDEA DEVELOPMENT
My tweaks of other people’s Water spell ideas that I liked a lot from other threads. (I’ve listed idea sources, but the specific configurations are my take on the original.):

BATTLE MAGIC and BATTLE ENCHANTMENTS

Combat Flow: Battle Magic. Thaumaturgy 2. Paths: W1S1. Cost: 20 fatigue.
The caster’s defense rating increases as he becomes magically attuned to the ebb and flow of combat.

[Design notes: Defense increases +1 per 2 ranks in the Water path, rounded up, cap at +5. Area=Caster, Precision=100] [rabelais]

Combat Tide: Battle Enchantment. Thaumaturgy 5. Paths: W3S1. Costs: 200 fatigue/2 Water gem.
As Combat Flow, but nearby friendly units have their defense values increased.

[Design notes: Precision=+5, Range=10, Area=5+. Unlike Water Shield and Water Ward, the Combat Flow/Tide spells work on land. Combat Flow/Tide effects do not stack with Water Shield/Ward effects.]

Jellyfish Swarm: Battle Magic. Conjuration 1. Paths: W1. Costs: 30 fatigue.
This spell can be cast only underwater. Summons a swarm of small, slow, weak, highly toxic jellyfish with paralyzing poison and long tentacles.

[Design notes: Area=caster, Nbr eff=2+, say about +2 per additional rank of water magic. The closest current spell is Animate Skeletons, and the jellyfish as detailed below should be about half a skeleton.][Saber Cherry]

[Jellyfish: Size=1, hp=1, prot=0, mor=50, mr=3, enc=3, str=0, att=10, def=10, prec=5, mv=1, ap=1, Specials: aquatic, does not eat, fly, mindless, paralysis (weapon 282), attack every second round.]

[Design notes: I’m guessing that 1 action point means they would move next to an enemy and have to survive a round before getting an attack. I think giving them this type of delay and a slow attack mode would be the equivalent of a slow-moving hazard, without having to mess with the instantaneous underwater movement conventions of the fly ability too much.]

Monsoon Rains: Battle Enchantment. Evocation 5. Paths: W3. Costs: 300 fatigue/3 Water gems.
This heavy rain has all the effects of the Rain spell. In addition, precision is greatly lowered for all units due to limited visibility. No units can charge, and those other than amphibians and flyers struggle in deep mud. This spell cannot be cast underwater.

[Design notes: The precision modifier for units is –4. This rain counts as a storm for storm effects. Normal Rain penalties are increased to 150% of that spell’s level. Effective encumbrance for non-amphibian or nonflying units is increased by x1.5. Action points for all units are halved. The Lance bonus is negated and Trample damage is halved. Aquatic/amphibian creatures are +1 morale, non-amphibian/aquatic creatures are –1 morale.] [Cohen, I think, original source note lost. The spell name is new.]

[Special notes: In cold conditions, the rain turns to snow, and all units except cold resistant ones have their Encumbrance increased by x1.5. The precision, fire, Lance, and Trampling effects remain the same. The morale effects of the base spell do not apply. Action points are not adjusted.]

Razor Fish: Battle Magic. Conjuration 2. Paths: W2. Costs: Fatigue 20.
The target unit, which must be a living creature, is slashed by a small razor fish commanded by the caster. The razor fish dies immediately, but the wound continues to bleed for the rest of the battle. This spell can be cast only underwater.

[Design notes: Rather than stat this out as a creature, this configuration assumes that the creature is only minnow-size and won’t be noticed before it does its damage. The wound is anesthetized by the razor fish saliva, which also prevents clotting. Anyone surviving the battle is assumed to be treated in time to avoid death. Dmg=2 + 2/turn, Precision=100, Area=1, Range=15, Special: Shark schools/sharks without riders in Area=2 around target become berserk +3. Undead and nonliving creatures are immune.][Saber Cherry’s “Bloodletting”]

[The bleed effect should be comparable to poison. Balancer may be to restrict bleeding to a set number of rounds.]

Razor Fish Tide: Battle Enchantment. Conjuration 8. Paths: W4. Costs: 400 fatigue/4 Water gems.
Razor fish attack all living creatures on the battlefield. The wounds continue to bleed for the rest of the battle. This spell can be cast only underwater.

[Design notes: Dmg=2 + 2/turn, Area=Battlefield, Range=Battlefield, Special: Shark schools/sharks without riders become berserk +3. Undead and nonliving creatures are immune.]

RITUAL SPELLS

Dome of Arcane Reflection: Ritual. Enchantment 7. Paths: W5. Cost: 10 Water gems + 1 gem/turn.
This province ward is 65% likely to deflect a spell, sending it elsewhere. Adding additional gems extends the duration of the dome. The dome collapses immediately if the caster is killed.

[Design notes: The reflection effect breaks down in percentages as follows: 01-35 No effect , 36-55 spell redirected into a random province, 56-80 spell redirected a neighboring province, and 81-00 spell reflected back into the caster's province—a somewhat different breakdown from the original. A spell that can’t be cast into the new target province fails.][Cainehill, Vicious Love]

Eldritch Fog: Ritual. Thaumaturgy 4. Paths: W3. Cost: 10 Water gems.
This spell can be cast only from an underwater laboratory. Commanders in the target province may become confused by the strange vapors of this mysterious fog and do nothing this turn. This spell cannot be cast underwater.

[Design notes: The chance per commander is 20%. All order options are greyed out for an affected commander for 1 turn and any continuing orders are reset to the Defend default. The fog also creates 10% unrest. Pretenders are immune. Consider making the prophet immune, too. A similar Random Event should be inserted.][Partly inspired by djtool’s “Deluge”.]

“A mysterious fog blankets [X] province this month. Everything seems to take longer and people are worried.”

[A footnote for those who are interested. If there are three commanders in the target province, the chance of getting at least one of them is about 50%. I don’t think a base 20% per commander is too low.]

Water Way: Ritual. Enchantment 6. Paths: W4. Cost: 15 Water gems.
This spell allows the caster and the units he commands to travel from one coastal or sea province directly to another coastal or sea province. This spell can be cast only in a coastal or sea province.

[by Gateway103] [The path and cost stats follow Zen’s Concept Mod treatment of Fairy Trod.]

GLOBAL SPELLS

Ocean of Air: Global. Alteration 7. Paths: W6. Costs: 80 Water gems.
This spell allows aquatic creatures to fly and to breathe air, enabling them to move into land provinces. It Lasts until it is dispelled or until the caster dies. This spell can be cast only from an underwater laboratory.

[Design notes: It lets aquatics fly at their sea move rates. It also allows sea creatures to breathe air. All “cast only under water” spells can be cast anywhere. Items that only work underwater function anywhere.][Vicious Love’s “Ghostwater Tides”, though IMO no ethereal connection is needed—the creatures are not “flying” or “airbreathing”, they are “swimming” and “waterbreathing” in a magically enhanced medium that aquatic/amphibious essences respond to—Water magic all the way.]

Whispering Clams: Global. Thaumaturgy 5, Paths: W2S2. Cost: 30 Water gems.
This spell reveals information about any province containing a Clam magic item as if viewing through an Astral Window. The effect Lasts until it is dispelled or until the caster is killed. This spell can be cast only from an underwater laboratory.

[Design notes: The information is spy-level, so it would, for example, reveal what’s inside a besieged fortress. This effect is a variation of the Voice of Tiamat spell, focused through the hive consciousness of enchanted clams—a side effect of the magic that makes them gem-producers. BTW, I played around with a ritual Version of this for awhile, but decided that pricing the capability would be just too arbitrary. IMO it works best as a global effect.][Maltrease’s “Seeing Pool”]

[The low pricing is intentional. I see this as a “cockroach” global spell that costs only as much to put up as it does to dispel. This may or may not be a good idea, depending on exactly how global spell replacement works. A more conventional price would be 40 Water gems.]

MAGIC ITEMS

Amulet of the Jellyfish: Trinket. Construction 0. Paths: W1. Cost: 5 Water gems.
This item works only underwater, spamming out 2 jellyfish per turn.

[Design notes: See Jellyfish Swarm spell for jellyfish stats.]

Sharkskin Armor: Lesser Item. Construction 2. Paths: W2. Cost: 10 Water gems.
While the commander wearing this armor is underwater, he will be attended by a school of small sharks.

[Design notes: prot=8, def=1, enc=1. If underwater, the armor automatically summons a school of 5 small sharks at the beginning of a battle. The sharks also show up during assassination attempts if the commander is underwater.]

Shambler Amulet: Greater Item. Construction 4. Paths: W2N1. Cost: 10 Water gems, 5 Nature gems.
The commander wearing this amulet assumes a human-shambler hybrid amphibian form. The wearer can breathe freely in water or air, and can walk on land or swim in water as if a creature native to that environment.

[Design notes: size 3, hp +6, prot +6, str +2, def –2, prec –2, mv=1, ap=11. Special: cold-blooded. This shapechange is magical.]

Pocket Hippocampus Chariot: Very Powerful Item. Construction 6. Paths: 3W. Cost: 20 Water gems.
A commander with this item can move two sea spaces instead of one and can Trample in combat. This item does not function on land.

[Design notes: Magic item fits the “feet” slot. Chariot size=5, Specials: Trample, Reinvigorate +2.]

The Conch Coach (unique): Artifact. Construction 8. Paths: 4W. Cost: 40 Water gems.
This item holds 110 size-units of aquatic units. These units can only enter or leave the Coach underwater. The Coach itself can be taken into any province. If the commander equipped with the Coach is killed, all units in the Coach are lost. It is not possible to fly or move quickly overland with the Coach.

[Design notes: 1) In terms of scouting/scrying, units in the Coach are counted as troops; 2) it is not possible to be stealthy and have the Coach equipped—it represents a 120-ft vehicle, plus draft-slugs; 3) if the commander is attacked while underwater (any province if the global effect Ocean of Air is in force), the units in the Coach automatically appear on the battlefield, grouped as a central mass—you can’t give formation orders to units in the Coach; 4) if the commander is attacked on land, the units do not debark—instead they suffer the fate of the commander—if he is killed, they die. 5) Capacity works out to 55 tritons, or 36 shamblers, or 22 war lobsters, etc.]

Graphic: Giant conch shell on crude wheels, drawn by giant slugs.

[Vicious Love]

I definitely appreciate the thought you've put into this, but many of these spells/items seem like they would be nigh-impossible to implement, and most also seem unbalanced, one way or another.
Take Global Haze, for instance. Level EIGHT in a path which water nations seldom have call to research, costs twenty gems more than the base cost of the target enchantment, requires 2 path levels more than Dispel, and offers no secondary, Fate of Oedipusish perks such as burning out the target's eyes. I suppose it might be preferable to dispel under certain circumstances, but said circumstances are of nearly negligible likelihood.
'course, game balance can be rectified, and a few of these spells wouldn't be all that hard to code. Effort applauded, old bean!

[Saber Cherry]

I vote for Jellyfish Swarm =)

Overall, a bunch of good ideas! Aside from Quickness and water/blood summons - which are very powerful, of course - I've always felt Water could use some more exciting spells.

-Cherry

[LDiCesare]

Curse of Atlantis: Overpowered. Let's target the capital of Arcoscephale. Now thay can no longer build Astrologers. Now let's target the capital of Mictlan. Let's hoard 200 water gems to cut the isthmus so the reinforcements from the north can't reach the south. And so forth.
Give it only 40% chance of success at each casting and it will still be too powerful in my opinion. Make it 50% success +5%/dominion point or 100% -10%/opponent dominion would be better. Destroying three provinces in order to destroy the capital of one nation is way too powerful to succeed automatically.

[NTJedi]

I have to agree with LDiCesare...
Curse of Atlantis is way way tooooo powerful... maybe if the cost was 2000 water gems the spell would be okay.

[RedRover]

Thanks to all!

Vicious Love: Impossible to implement? Certainly impossible to mod in Dom2, we just don’t have the tools. But are they impossible for Dom3? Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Global Haze: You are right. I forgot to add a benefit. How about +1 morale bonus for friendly amphibious and aquatic units?

On the issue of the rarely-researched school, that sounds good to me. My intuition was telling me Evo 6, but my relative lack of empathy for Atlantis (which I don’t play much) impelled me toward the (timid) decision to mirror the Fire-based global spell. Sloppy move. I temporarily forgot the principle of dynamic equality and didn’t take the preferred lines of Atlantian/R’lyeh research into account. Evocation 6 is better, yes?

This might be an issue for the cost and path assignments for Water Way, as well. Once again, blindly copying a similar spell is no substitute for dynamic balance testing.

Just for grins, a revised Evocation list would look like:

Freezing Touch, Evo 0, W1
Slime, Evo 1, W1
Cold Bolt, Evo 1, W2
Geyser, Evo 1, W1F1
Acid Spray, Evo 1, W2F1

Cold BLast, Evo 2, W2
Rain, Evo 2, W2

Freezing Mist, Evo 3, W3A1
Acid Bolt, Evo 3, W2F1
Sea Squalls, Evo 3, W3

Water Strike, Evo 4, W1
Acid Rain, Evo 4, W3F1

Falling Frost, Evo 5, W3
Monsoon Rains, Evo 5, W3

Cooling Zephyr, Evo 6, W3
Global Haze, Evo 6, W5

Ice Strike, Evo 7, W2
Murdering Winter, Evo 7, W5
Acid Storm, Evo 7, W4F1

Maelstrom, Evo 8, W6

Niefel Flames, Evo 9, W5
Tidal Wave, Evo 9, W5

Don’t you think the Water-gem-generating Maelstrom at L8 is sufficient to draw the aquatic nation player up this list?
-If not, do you think Maelstrom should be a lower level?

Acid Spells: I do think that the acid-series spells (Spray, Bolt, Rain, Storm) might be used more if the Fire element was removed. In my own (solo) play, I’ve certainly never had occasion to seek them out, though I have tried them out of curiosity before going back to more efficient spells.
-Are they as much a dead-end in multiplayer games?

It might be reasonable to reconfigure the whole acid attack form to be fully water-based. After all, swamp-dweller bile breath is acidic and swamps tend to be water-themed (at least much more than fire-themed).
-Thoughts?

Rust Mist (Evo 2): How about making this E2W1 spell a W2E1 spell instead, shifting it from the Earth camp into the Water camp?

Anyone know of a hidden landmine that making this change would set off? If not, it might be worth testing.

On the cost issue, I was looking at Eyes/Fate, and the premium for a 100% kill on the Eyes was 150% of its base cost. Applying that to Second Sun gave a kill cost of 120, and that seemed too expensive. Turns out I misread Dispel—I thought it would take a base cost of 80 to get rid of Second Sun. Having reread the Dispel description, oops, not so. The base cost of Global Haze should have been in the 45-55 range (see below).

Do go on. I value your commentary.

Saber Cherry: Thank you. I always liked your jellyfish idea.

LDiCesare: On reviewing the Curse of Atlantis spell, I agree with you.

Curse of Atlantis is seriously overpowered as configured. Your suggestion about dominion is excellent.

One perception that I’ve developed over time is that it’s harder for the sea nations to amass a pile of Water gems than it is for land nations to amass a pile of their theme gem.
-Would you agree?

That said, a big boost to cost and better controls are definitely needed for this spell.

Benchmarks: The most expensive current spell is Astral Corruption at 166 Astral gems. IMO it is undesirable to match or exceed the highest cost in the best path with a Water spell of any sort.

There are two spells at 150 gems (Looming Hell, Arcane Nexus), two spells at 120 (Illwinter, Three Red Seconds), and two spells at 100 (Wish, Utterdark). I’m much more comfortable nerfing Curse of Atlantis down to a fair value of, say, 150 gems. I am partial to 150, which is like 100 for a Wish, +50% premium for being irreversible.

NTJedi: Thanks for your input.

-Have you ever been in a multiplayer game where a sea nation amassed 2,000 Water gems?
-What is the highest Water gem total you have seen amassed by a sea nation in a multiplayer game?

(BTW: Anyone should feel free to jump in on these questions. Practical benchmarks are important.)

TWEAKS & REVISIONS

Global Haze: Global. Evocation 6. Paths: W5. Cost: 50 Water gems.
A great cooling haze rises from the oceans. It blankets the world, raising the morale of friendly amphibious and aquatic creatures. The haze also reverses the effects of the Second Sun global spell (Ev 8)—the spell energies drain each other, mutually destroying both global effects.

[Design notes: Friendly aquatic and amphibious units receive a +1 morale bonus while this spell is active.]

Curse of Atlantis: Ritual. Alteration 9. Paths: W8. Cost: 150 Water gems.
One of the great ancient forbidden incantations, this spell reclaims a coastal province/island for the sea. The target province permanently sinks into the sea amid great disruption. This spell is risky to cast and much less likely to succeed in areas under hostile dominion. This spell can be cast only from an underwater laboratory.

[Design notes: This spell changes the designation of the coastal province from land to sea, permanently—this cannot be reversed. Chance of success is 90% - 10% per point of hostile dominion. Since the curse causes the whole province to sink from below, domes do not affect or stop it. A full 80% of the population dies, as do all units and commanders without water breathing ability. Province structures (Temple, Lab, etc) except Fortresses are destroyed. Province defense is set to 0. Corpse count is set to 0 after this. Unrest is set to 200% after this. Growth scale is set to +3 after this. The converted province is permanently marked with a blue magic effect marker (i.e., a dome marker). The caster is automatically feebleminded and has 3 chances at 30% for additional afflictions.]

The new configuration does several things:
-First, the higher Level and high path means there will be a long delay until the capability comes on line.
-Second, dominion as the principal defense gives the defender more control over his vulnerability.
-Third, the automatic failure chance plus the certainty of affliction (and the chance of multiple afflictions) slow down the rate at which this spell can be used.

Given that the typical multiplayer game tends to be decided in 40 turns or so, pushing the time scale for the effective use of this spell this far out may be too much control. A casting of once a game in 20 multiplayer games or twice or more per game in 50 to 100 games is the frequency benchmark I’d like to see this spell hit.

Now a question for the experienced MP’ers:
In all your MP games that included Atlantis, in what percentage of them would it have been feasible (not necessarily smart) for the Atlantian player to drop 150 Water gems into a single spell?

-What about R’lyeh?

[deccan]

RedRover said:
The most expensive current spell is Astral Corruption at 166 Astral gems. IMO it is undesirable to match or exceed the highest cost in the best path with a Water spell of any sort.

It's blood slaves, not astral gems.

But I agree that Curse of Atlantis is still too powerful. It's just too much of a do-everything spell. It would be the best province disaster (80% population dead, better than Black Death!), best army destroyer (kills all non-waterbreathing units including SCs!!!), best unrest causing spell all-in-one, and gets rid of temple/lab as a bonus, which I think would be rather against the spirit of the game, regardless of what costs you impose on it.

[Vicious Love]

RedRover said:
Vicious Love: Impossible to implement? Certainly impossible to mod in Dom2, we just don’t have the tools. But are they impossible for Dom3? Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Point taken.

Global Haze: You are right. I forgot to add a benefit. How about +1 morale bonus for friendly amphibious and aquatic units?

I thought Second Sun and Global Haze cancelled each other out? 50 gems may not be all that much, on a global mojo scale, but I still can't imagine anyone shelling out 50 water gems for no more than a +1 morale bonus to the rank-and-file.
At any rate, evocation 6 sounds good.

Don’t you think the Water-gem-generating Maelstrom at L8 is sufficient to draw the aquatic nation player up this list?
-If not, do you think Maelstrom should be a lower level?

Speaking of shelling out, you'd think Maelstrom would be some sort of incentive, but you forget that
A) Astral pearls will always be more valuable than water gems, even with these new spells available. I'm not saying astral needs to be nerfed, I'm simply saying it's more powerful. It's... thematic. Not all paths were created equal.
B) Clams can be produced long, long before a Maelstrom can be evoked, and yield a comparable return on investment.
C) Clams cannot be dispelled, and are unlikely to be lost. Actually managing to lose clams and researchers is one of the first signs of being doomed, doomed, doomed. Unless you've simply forgotten to research domes. Not a single one of which is an evocation.

Obviously, Maelstrom is worth casting, if you've already researched evocation 7 or 8 for unrelated reasons, but it would probably be unwise to squander one's research on a school which can't even summon Queens of Elemental Water.

Acid Spells: I do think that the acid-series spells (Spray, Bolt, Rain, Storm) might be used more if the Fire element was removed. In my own (solo) play, I’ve certainly never had occasion to seek them out, though I have tried them out of curiosity before going back to more efficient spells.
-Are they as much a dead-end in multiplayer games?

I imagine Caelian high seraphs and R'lyeh's starspawn make good acid flingers, what with the combo of water magic and a random. Removing the fire would take away the spells' STYLE, it would, and not lightly does one impoverish Dom 2's groove.
Besides, I'm told they're downright awesome. No resistance protects against them, and damage is more than halfway decent. Remove the fire, and you give water an immense advantage in precisely the area in which it should be one of the weakest paths. You also make fire just an ickle bit less valuable as a battlefield path, which is an awfully counterintuitive thing to do. If anything, we should be enhancing the power of burnination yet further. Or teaching anathemants to actually hit the friggin' target, but that's another issue altogether. Bloody Abysian precision.

After all, swamp-dweller bile breath is acidic and swamps tend to be water-themed (at least much more than fire-themed).

Nope, it's natural. And wet, as well, depending on whether you spit it out or summon some beasties to spit it out for ya. Pay attention!

Rust Mist (Evo 2): How about making this E2W1 spell a W2E1 spell instead, shifting it from the Earth camp into the Water camp?

Works for me. Wouldn't even deprive earth of all that much.

Now a question for the experienced MP’ers:
In all your MP games that included Atlantis, in what percentage of them would it have been feasible (not necessarily smart) for the Atlantian player to drop 150 Water gems into a single spell?

Not an experienced player, but I'd have to say "The ones in which they don't blow all their water income on clams and Water Queens". Anyone ever seen that happen?

[Turin]

Well I think the spell would be fine if it had a (70-enemydominionstrength*10 + friendly dominionstrength*10) % chance of success.(after all it costs as much as three waterqueens), so it should be powerful It would very rarely suceed against enemy capitals and generally wouldn´t help much offensively, but it would be an awesome spell for defense.
Right now it is rather pointless to have a 6+ water mage, so water magic needs some nifty highlevel spells.

[PDF]

Re Curse of Atlantis,
I don't agree much with the % chance of success idea : any spell costing 100+ gems and having a sizeable chance of *not* working will never be cast (except maybe by hoarders lol) !
The spell has to be made "balanced" but with 100% success chance, rather than ruin the game for one player either by succeeding or by failing !