How to use mage in a battle

[Skolem]

As far as I understand Dominions now, in the middle/late game, army are mostly either SC/thugs or mage army.That is there are surely other things in the army, but what it makes victorious will be one of this two, so as there are plenty of Posts about SC, it is fairly easy to experiment the suggested strat and to learn how to create these. But I still don't understand how these mage army function. What are the composition of such army's? how early do you create them, how many mages should be in them to function?
As an example, how early could I as pythium make such army's, how many Theurgs or Archtheurgs should be in them to win battles, what troops or summon should go with them, what spell would you cast? every time I experience I have the feeling I will be either defeated or I have an way to much as it was necessary.
thanks Skolem

[Boron]

A pythium mage army is quite good i found out in my first pythium game . I made lots of errors though .

I recommend the following army core :
- Mechanical men as troops
- A wrathful sky caster
- 15+ theurgs
- 2-3 relief casters at least

Good optional additional components :
- Storm demons
- Fire mages
- Scs / thugs
- communion slaves
- Arch theurgs
- Earth mages

Of course such armies are expensive . You won't be able to field more than 1-2 such armies for a long time .

Equipment :
- 1 banner of northern star
- 1 staff of storms
- Shock resistence rings for every non-lightning resistent mage/commander without air magic , if you can afford for your airmages also , frees 1 spell
- quickness items for your more important mages , especially the non-water mages

Scripting :
-The wrathful sky caster :
Wrathful skies on turn 1 if all your mages are 100% SR , if not wait until they are buffed , this can Last 2-3 turns when you use communion slaves .
He can further cast these useful spells : Arrow fend , Fog warriors , Wind guide ( helps mages precision as well iirc ) .

- Your nature mages :
Consider especially mass protection , mass regeneration with one of your nature mages .
If possible equip them with a jade armor . Use best Ivy kings for this . 2-3 are enough , scripted to plain 5x relief , cast spells .

- Your theurgs :
Lots of possibilities here , mainly depending if using communion slaves or not .

Without slaves :
- Quickness , soul slay x4
- Quickness , frozen heart x4

With slaves :
- Quickness , falling frost x4
- Quickness , thunder strike x4
- Quickness , enslave mind x4

- A good astral mage can do the following :

- Master enslave , good vs. hordes of rather low MR troops , like AE undeads , most national troops , most summoned troops expect blood ones .
- Antimagic , especially helpful for your mechanical men
- Will of the Fates


After the scripts run out all your Air mages tend to spam false horrors , ghost wolves + phantasmal warriors + they will cast buffs first .
If the enemy gets near them then they consider though damage spells again .

Fortunately the spamming is not so bad because the false horrors can fly during a storm + they keep the enemies away from your mages .



Such a mage army is imo "best" used to take out the enemy capitol + his forging/summoning centers .

The key on the battlefield is to quickly wipe out the enemy troops . Then your troops + mages can concentrate on the enemy SCs and normally defeat them rather easy .
With Charm/Enslave mind you can even hope of stealing them .


Your mechanical men are very good troops . Only beware before Mr - Negate spells with good area effect like nether darts , astral fires etc. .
They can block most enemy SCs quite long too . With the right buffs they can even kill them on their own .


There are 2 big counters though :
- Remote artillery spells
- Assasinations

Unfortunately as pythium you can't really protect against those dangers , so within 2-3 turns your e.g. 50 mage army will be reduced to a 10-20 mage army if you are not covered by domes .


A good mage/troop army easily beats enemy SC/troop armies on the battlefield . But it gets slowly killed by the above listed indirect tactics .

[Skolem]

Thanks a lot!
It gives me some Idea how to do it, now, this was a rather end game tactic, or I am mistaking? My big problem is to survive the midgame, because if I can not achieve that I will not be able to use such tactics. Is every mage army who wants to be effective condemn to have 15 mage as a minimum, what do you do if you don't find nature mages? how usefull are maybe 4 Theurgs casting soul slay and the likes, i never was able to make any difference with these spells, I don't have the feeling they change anything in the outcome of a battle.

[Zooko]

I've had fine success against independents by using lots of mages who cast "Body Ethereal, Luck, Communion Slave". Put one of those mages in a square with either two man-sized unit or one cavalry-sized unit, where the units are on "hold and attack". Of course, you want one or two mages who cast Communion Master instead of Communion Slave.

I'm a newbie -- this could be a useless tactic against actual enemies, but I managed to conquer a level-7 independent province with heavy cavalry without losing any mages, so I'm happy. I had two mages casting False Horror to slow down the Cavalry and two Grand Masters of Marignon, who cast Communion Master, Summon Earthpower, and Phoenix Pyre.

I hope my enemies don't read this thread and learn all my secrets.

[Boron]

Skolem said:
Thanks a lot!
It gives me some Idea how to do it, now, this was a rather end game tactic, or I am mistaking? My big problem is to survive the midgame, because if I can not achieve that I will not be able to use such tactics. Is every mage army who wants to be effective condemn to have 15 mage as a minimum, what do you do if you don't find nature mages? how usefull are maybe 4 Theurgs casting soul slay and the likes, i never was able to make any difference with these spells, I don't have the feeling they change anything in the outcome of a battle.

Yeah my army was a lategame army .

In Midgame as Pythium you though field big theurg armies as well .
Nature is normally never an issue for pythium in lategame . One arch theurg should then have the N random , + ring of wizardy/sorcery = n3 . Then forge thistle mace = n4 , then just cast lamia queens or Ivy kings for more Nature mages . More likely you found somewhere druids or jade sorceresses or similiar already though .


In midgame Pythium is often a bit weak because they lack good SCs / summoned troops normally in that phase of the game . A theurg / communion slave army is the way to go then though .

use about 5 communion masters + about 5-10 normal theurgs for false horror spamming to block the enemy + about 35 communion slaves for your main army .
If you have relief casters as well already you can make more mages communion masters .

For scripted spells mainly chose the following :
-Thunderstrike
-Falling frost
-Enslave mind

Try to have 1 staff of storms

As troops you can use either something like 50-100 principes or if you already have rather 50-100 mechanical men .

Such an army is extremely hard to beat on the battlefield midgame .

Use this main army to attack the enemy capitol . Your biggest enemies are Fires from afar / assasins at that stage .

Against weak defended provinces 1-2 theurgs with a few guards spamming false horrors are enough to beat most PDs / Small guarding forces .

[alexti]

I would say that attacking anything with that army is quite risky. The opponent opens with rain of stones x 2 (or more) and your army is no more.

[Tuidjy]

I am always amazed by some people who keep giving advice that presumes that
their opponent is brain dead. The reason you will not see armies of 50 mages
except in artificial winner-takes-all battles, is that big armies cost a lot,
require huge upkeep, move glacially slow, and are decimated as soon as they show
up outside a dome.

Not by remote spells, but by battlefield wide spells like rain of stones, flame
storm, astral tempest and wrathful skies. Watch how the mega army fights one
turn, and on the next, teleport in a few mages that will cast the most suitable
of the above mentioned spells. Do not forget to also:

1. Provide some cannon fodder with 'Call of the Wild', 'Call of the Wind',
or 'Imprint souls', so that your mages survive the first enemy turn.
2. Garantee a retreat province for your mages (no, they are not supposed to win
the battle, just cripple the clumsy behemont.
3. If possible, garantee that there is nowhere for his routers to retreat.

This is not to say that remote spells or assassins are not to be used if you
have them, but as Boron said, they will only inconvenience the enemy. A nice
astral tempest will ruin most armies. Armies are for defense and mopping up.
The enemy's back is broken with carefully targetted surgical strikes executed
by a few specialist mages...

[deccan]

Tuidjy said:
I am always amazed by some people who keep giving advice that presumes that
their opponent is brain dead. The reason you will not see armies of 50 mages
except in artificial winner-takes-all battles, is that big armies cost a lot,
require huge upkeep, move glacially slow, and are decimated as soon as they show
up outside a dome.

So does this mean that mage-based armies designed for using communion generally don't work in practice?

[archaeolept]

there is no general rule. it depends upon game settings, players, and who you're fighting. multiple small communion squads, w/ a relief caster, are probably safer, though.

[Skolem]

there is no general rule. it depends upon game settings, players, and who you're fighting. multiple small communion squads, w/ a relief caster, are probably safer, though.

And may I ask how they are like? this are the kind of army I had thought about, and which I do not bring to function. Something like 3 to 5 mage, (with some normal troops or not?) and maybe a summon or two, what should this guys cast?