Weapons simulations?

[Alienboy]

I have been doing a few simulations on ships and weapons platforms. I am having a few problems with the stratagies and I haven't been able to find any comments on the problems I'm having. I'm hoping someone here can point me in the right dirrection.

1. With WP's on Strategic simulations, almost every turn there seems to be a few weapons that don't fire. I can't seem to get all the weapons to fire on the enemy. It isn't the same weapon every time. I have done simulations with 5 or more WP's on a planet, all on the same strategy, and maybe 20 odd enemy ships. I know a planet can only target 10 enemy targets but sometimes I have observed only 15% of the weapons fire on a few ships and thats it. There are plenty of other targets to fire on, and within range, but nothing happens. The amount of weapons that fire is different every turn, even if you have over 10 targets in range every turn. I have spent some time mucking around with different strategies but nothing really works. I have also noticed that if you select "Damage target until all weapons are gone", that it doesn't work. I do understand that if your target has just one weapon left, and you fire at it with a large weapon, that its posible to completely distroy the target. This isn't always the case though. Smaller weapons just keep firing until the target is completely distroyed! Is it that the simulator doesn't work as well as the actual game situations?

2. Another annoying thing I have observed is irratic weapons fire from specialized weapons such as sheild damaging weapons and engine damaging weapons etc. I have tried putting one shield damaging weapon on each WP. During one simulation I placed 5 or more WPs on a planet, and attacked it with 20 or so enemies. Usually, during the first turn the WPs fire, there is nothing odd to report. Sheild weapons fire randomly at targets with sheilds. If one targets sheilds are depleted, then the next sheild weapon fires on another target with sheilds. However, from the second turn onwards the sheild weapons sometimes "lock" on the same target, even if its sheilds had been depleted in a previous turn. Same with engine damaging weapons??

Conclusion is that it is really difficult to develope your ideas if the simulator sucks!.... actually, I'm a bit of a newbie so maybe I'm overlooking something???

[Aiken]

Welcome to the board Alienboy.

First of all, simulator is indeed quite buggy. Don't try to rely on it in details. It will serve you until things go overcomplicated, but after that it tends to suck. If you want to know real situation, arrange a test game with a real battle.

1. This might happen if your weapons have reload rate of 2 or more. Then such weapon will fire once per 2 or more turns.
As for firing at unarmed ships, dunno, but I have a feeling that weapons on planet behave itself quite independent of WP strategy. This is my impression, though, and I could be wrong.

2. a) Other ships could be out of range; b) yet another simulation bug; c) it's a real bug of SE4. If you want to check this out - arrange a test game and combat, if you'll get the same results, you could proudly report another se4 bug

[Suicide Junkie]

The "damage target until all weapons destroyed" and the other targetting options don't come into effect between shots; they trigger between volleys.

Since platforms are one big stack, the volley includes everthing its got.

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I'm not sure if you can install wormhole beams on platforms in stock, but if you can, that would make a great way to help divvy up your fire.
Hit 'em with a handful of massive APBs, and then warp 'em away out of range. The remaining guns are forced to fire on a new target.

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Especially with missiles, if you have a large amount of overkill, the planet may hold back some of its weapons to shoot at a different target next turn while reloading the first ones.

[Alienboy]

I think setting up a dummy game is probably the best idea. I think that what I am seeing is a bug. I have considered your comments and there are two things from my observations that come to mind.

1. The most important point I can make here is that I have tried the same simulation in both Strategic and Tactical modes. In tactical mode I can get all the weapons to fire on all targets that are in range. No exceptions. Then I switch to Strategic and everything goes out the window?

2. I use direct fire weapons that fire every turn. You can't use warp weapons on a weapons platform.

I'm hoping that the problem is the simulator, and thanks for the idea aiken, you have given me an idea which will test my theory. I'll let you know once I've had time to try your idea out.

I can think of two things I hope can be changed for SE5. A simulator that works properly and warp weapons for weapons platforms. Oh yeah, ECM's don't work on weapons platforms either, well,... in strategic simulation that is ???.... and I just realized something else........ I spend way tooooo much time playing this retched game!

[Suicide Junkie]

The planet has a build in -200% to ECM.
Any ECM you add will be totally swamped by the planet's modifier, and then ships get their combat sensors and training to make that worse.

[geoschmo]

Yes, something as large as a planet would be kind of hard to miss, so that ECM penalty makes some sense. However, a specific target on a planet like a WP might not be so easy to hit. Something we should suggest for SE5. Treat a shot fired at a planet without the -200% ECM. Use normal to-hit chances and factor in any ECM the WP has. If the ship still scores a hit the WP takes damage. If it's a miss, the WP is not damaged, but the damage still get's applied to the planet, taking out some facilities or population. Would make planetary bombardment make a little more sense. Collateral damage and all that.

[Alienboy]

Yes, I know this.... again two things..

1, WP's are distroyed before the planet takes damage. So ECM's should work for the WP's?? Don't you think??

2, I have watched the "hit damage" points on a planet that is being attached by a ship with 7 or more Polaron weapons. The weapon on this ship can do 165 points of damage per hit. When this ship fires at the planet with WP's (without ECM's), its hit rate is 100%, or 165 points (which doesn't change by adding ECM's!). I have then watched a ship fire three out of it seven polaron weapons, distroying the Last of the WP's. I then watched the planets "hit damage" points REDUCE to 160 points for the other four shots, and until the planet is completely destroyed? If WP's were acting as a sheild it would be the other way around.

We are only talking a 3% difference but I am thinking like you. The Weapons platforms should give some amount of protection to the planet as they draw the fire away from the facilities, at least until all weapons platforms are destroyed. I mean you wouldn't run outside naked, shoting a ships would ya!? All turrents I have ever seen have armor??

It's 3am Saturday morning here and I'm not one who can afford to lose beauty sleep. Till the next time? Great talking with you people.

[Suicide Junkie]

In that case, you are probably seeing the rounding off of the population damage.

Look in settings.txt to find the hitpoints per 1M population.
You can't kill fractions of a pop, and the damage rounds down.
Minimum kill for normal damage weapons is 1M, though.

[Kana]

Speaking of simulations...what is the minimum components, files, etc...that will allow a mod to work enough to try a combat simulation? Can you leave out facilities and things like that? I wanted to do some in game weapons testing, but don't want to have to make the whole mod to do the testing...of course I could just add the weapons to another existing mod and test there I guess...

Kana

[Fyron]

All you need is the stuff required to design viable warships. There will be some stock data files you will need to copy over to get SE4 to load, but that is all. A blank facilities.txt file (other than the begin an end tags and all that) will let you run combat simulations without trouble.