How do you defend against an Abysian devil rush? - Page 2

FrankTrollman · #11 April 10th, 2005, 11:06 PM

I'm assuming you are talking Spine Devils, rather than "devils", because I don't think there is any way for Abyssia to get together 480 blood slaves by turn 15 (or even 20 earth gems and 360 blood slaves, which if they have a god with 3 earth).

In any case, with Caelum you can smite these bad boys down even as the Raptors. Get yourself some Staves of Storms and learn Orb Lightning. A pile of Orb Lgihtning firing Harabs with a nondescript blob of Corpse Constructs in front will tie up the Spine Devils virtually forever while you shred them to nasty pieces. Putting out Blizzard Warriors in groups of one out there to soak damage while the lightning does its work helps too.

-Frank

quantum_mechani · #12 April 10th, 2005, 11:16 PM

You don't need soul contracts to get devils. 42 slaves is all that is needed for 6 devils.

ioticus · #13 April 11th, 2005, 12:51 AM

Yes, I'm talking about Devils. All you need is 42 slaves which is very easy for Abysia to get in short order. How on earth can Caelum have enough air gem resources and construction research to start forging staff of storms by turn 20?

quantum_mechani · #14 April 11th, 2005, 01:04 AM

Quote:

ioticus said:
Yes, I'm talking about Devils. All you need is 42 slaves which is very easy for Abysia to get in short order. How on earth can Caelum have enough air gem resources and construction research to start forging staff of storms by turn 20?

It is possible to get one by then, but it is also quite possible to defeat a handful of devils without one.

ioticus · #15 April 11th, 2005, 02:23 AM

How do you script the raptors effectively? I give them attack rear orders and they still kill themselves attacking the front lines.

quantum_mechani · #16 April 11th, 2005, 02:39 AM

Quote:

ioticus said:
How do you script the raptors effectively? I give them attack rear orders and they still kill themselves attacking the front lines.

'Attack Rear' only works as intended about 25% of the time, and depends a lot on how big the enemy army is and how it is deployed. Setting them to guard a flying commander, and the commander to (hold)(hold)(hold)(hold)(hold) Attack Rear works better. But the best way is if they have archers and you use the attack archers command.

Saber Cherry · #17 April 11th, 2005, 02:42 AM

Quote:

ioticus said:
I'm playing Caelum, the Raptors theme. I really don't have anything to counter the Devils and Abysian infantry.

I've never played them. I imagine that 2 elders and 2+ seraphs in the middle of a cluster of Wingless or Caelian Archers, with evocation 2 and enchantment 3, would be able to kill 6 devils with arrows and lightning, while holding them off with skeletons... and be done before the Abysian infantry reaches them. Giving each elder a girdle of might and / or a skull staff would be helpful too.

No Caelian units can avoid or survive hits from Fire-blessed lava warriors, so just throw tons of cheap units against them, and try to take out the commanders with "Hold and attack rearmost." This would be especially useful to take out Abysian priests so they can't banish your stream of skeletons... but "attack rearmost" is really a luck-based move, and often they don't really attack rearmost.

Letting loose a few mammoths in the enemy ranks can cause great havoc, too, but they're so expensive that I probably wouldn't buy them unless I could make them ethereal, regenerating, and stoneskinned... or I had no other options. They work well against Abysians, though, as they have low defense and can't avoid trample. Be sure to group them with Wingless.

Return of the Raptors is pretty weak compared to default, but if you spend as much on Wingless and Mammoths as he does on Lava Warriors, you'll probably win a battle between the two.

Saber Cherry · #18 April 11th, 2005, 02:45 AM

Quote:

quantum_mechani said:

Quote:

ioticus said:
How do you script the raptors effectively? I give them attack rear orders and they still kill themselves attacking the front lines.

'Attack Rear' only works as intended about 25% of the time, and depends a lot on how big the enemy army is and how it is deployed. Setting them to guard a flying commander, and the commander to (hold)(hold)(hold)(hold)(hold) Attack Rear works better. But the best way is if they have archers and you use the attack archers command.

I suspect (but I am not sure) that putting "Attack Rear" troops farther forward makes them attack closer to the enemy rear. "Hold and Attack : Rear" also gives the enemy troopers a chance to leave behind their vulnerable mages and priests.

CUnknown · #19 April 11th, 2005, 11:29 AM

I just wanted to chime in in defense of my favorite faction and say that Ulm wouldn't have much trouble dealing with a devil rush, at least not more than anyone else. It's called Blade Wind, people!

ioticus · #20 April 11th, 2005, 12:45 PM

I fought his main force at one of my watch towers and I can confirm he had 10 Devils and 50 Lava Warriors at turn 20. I did destroy most of his force (his Vampire Queen and 4 Lavas survived), but at great cost to my self. I lost all 9 Mammoths and 67 (of 74) wingless and Raptors, and 2 Seraphs. The only thing that really saved me is the Mammoths attacking his rear which killed 3 of his commanders and my Pretender, a strong Prince of Death, casting death spells (though he did get a "weakened" affliction in this battle.) As expected, my Raptors committed suicide by attacking his Lavas directly. They simply evaporated. I must learn to use them correctly. I don't think I can hold out. I'm on a small map and I'm sure he's cranking out at least 1 Devil per turn and who knows how many Lavas.

By the way, my Pretender kept casting Fear at the Berserk Lavas (morale 99). Does that do any good or is it a case of poor casting AI?