Recoilless Rifles

GaryG48 · #1 June 30th, 2005, 08:58 AM

I stumbled over this item in an older copywrite of the Encyclopedia Britannica:

"Today (mid-1970's) one of the most notable weapons of this type (recoilless rifles) is the 84 mm infantry antitank gun that is in common use in a number of NATO countries. In Sweden, where it originated, it is know as the Carl Gustav. It is shoulder-controlled and capable of destroying any know tank at a range of 1,600 feet. Its weight is 36 lbs., and it can be carried and operated by one man; a second man is required to carry the ammunition and act as loader." --Brig. Cyril Nelson Barclay, the Cameronians (Scottish Rifles), retired.

I looked around the Encyclopedia in winSPMBT (which I don't really know how to use well) and found something called RBS-69 which looks close but I doubt if I got it right because the PEN is 2 which I don't think would kill "all" 70's era tanks.

Does anyone know winSPMBT's designation for this weapon? It looks like it would be fun to play a pair of them and some recon against an advancing tank platoon.

--Gary

PlasmaKrab · #2 June 30th, 2005, 09:15 AM

Don't woory, it IS in the game. Variously termed Carl Gustav, CG, MAW (Great Britain), or weird-looking numerical designations in nordic countries. Often with M1, M2 or M3 model number.

And basically it is just what it is suppsed to be: a shoulder-fired 84mm RLR, with HEAT or HE warheads.
Penetration is between 40 and 50 in the game, so relate that to the tank armors of that time.
One team carries generally up to 12 shots, so that makes you a team weapon quite comparable to a RPG-7.

You can find it in several countries indeed, among which USA , UK, Germany (W), Netherlands, Portugal, Canada, Sweden, Norway, Denmark...

Oh, and your RBS69 seems to be a SAM missile. Hence the pen=2

SCAJolly · #3 June 30th, 2005, 03:01 PM

UK OOB: Weapon 29 - 84mm MAW, range 2......... (100m)
Norwegian OOB: Weapon 29 - M2 Carl Gustaf, range 9 (450m)
The Norwegian military has trained its CG gunners in firing at static objects up to 700m (14 hexes!), moving objects at 500. I assume that such a(n annoyingly!) low range-value has been preserved to not make it a superweapon.

GaryG48 · #4 June 30th, 2005, 06:25 PM

WOW! Thanks for the quick responses and great info guys!

I'll take a closer look at the WinSPMBT encyclopedia and brew myself up a little "battle" to check it out.

--Gary

Pergite · #5 July 1st, 2005, 03:57 AM

Quote:

PlasmaKrab said:
Oh, and your RBS69 seems to be a SAM missile. Hence the pen=2

Also known as REDEYE (for you NATO members), the predecessor to STINGER. RBS69 is just a Swedish designition. RBS stands for Robot-System (Missile System) and that concludes this days course in nordic languages.

PlasmaKrab · #6 July 1st, 2005, 05:20 AM

OK, I didn't know RBS-69 = Redeye = FIM-53

I just knew the Swedish army used to have Redeyes...
But right enough the designations in Scandinavian countries can get quite cryptic, and since they generally buy half of their stuff, then upgrade half of it to the point it is not recognizable, and the other half is domestic design never, ever to be exported...

Anyway, still easier than in China or Japan

...

On the other matter here, has anyone ayn explanation about this Carl Gustav range thing?

Over quite all the oobs it seems to be range=9 and HEAT pen=50 for M3 and 40 for M2, except in the UK where it only penetrates 42cm at 4 hexes...

SCAJolly · #7 July 1st, 2005, 08:42 AM

Harrharr, limeys can't shoot.

Pergite · #8 July 4th, 2005, 05:06 AM

Quote:

PlasmaKrab said:
Over quite all the oobs it seems to be range=9 and HEAT pen=50 for M3 and 40 for M2, except in the UK where it only penetrates 42cm at 4 hexes...

That is odd. The CG system today offers a wide variety of ammunitons, some even (according to the manufacturer)capable to punch through MBT armour. Then there is some kind of flechett shell made for jungle warfare that after what I have seen is very devestating.

My point is that the CG systems values in general maybe should be upgraded because it today packs a whole lot more power than back in 1948.

PlasmaKrab · #9 July 4th, 2005, 05:15 AM

One thing we won't be able to do right now, and that I saw in use on the CG, is a tandem-HEAT rocket able of dealing with reactive armor.

Pergite, do you have hard data about old and new CG ammo? I'll chech the Dynamit-Nobel website anyway, but if you have anything first-hand that could be better.

How about range? 450m seems correct to me.

Pergite · #10 July 4th, 2005, 05:50 AM

Quote:

PlasmaKrab said:
Pergite, do you have hard data about old and new CG ammo?

This is the information I am sitting on, but its already posted by Saab Bofors Dynamics themselves:

LINK

There you have all the data of the latest ammunition types in .pdf as well as some commercials.

Range totally depends on the target, its speed, your sight system and what ammuntion you are using. With HEAT you can hit a moving (<50km/h) target at ranges of up to 150m. If its stationary and huge increase the range up to almost 400m. HE can be uses up to 700m and Smoke up to 1000m. This however is with old sights and ammuniton. The new rocket assisted HEAT rounds should have the capability to reach targets at around 700m.