WINSPWW2?

[narwan]

DRG said:

Vichy France will have it's own AI picklist and battle locations but they will be tied to date and opponent as is done now.

Don

Which makes sense but some of these locations are interesting what if scenario's (what if New Caledonia didn't become free french or Indochina did (and was subsequently invaded)? What if the free french did invade some of the Vichy territories in west africa? etc) or interesting in a different time frame. What if Torch never happened and the allies landed in France in '43 (or even '44) with an intact Vichy france?
Will the options for battle locations be limited to purely historical campaigns and battles or leave room for these what-ifs? All you'd really need is a list of Vichy territories (and could have been Vichy territories) to pick from during the entire duration of the existence of the Vichy OB, whether the territory was still part of Vichy france or not. You'd get those options via the terrain editor screen during start-up of a battle if you pick Vichy france as a side. Assuming that's possible code wise.

Narwan

[DRG]

That's what sceanrio designers do. If you want to "what-if" design a scenario. Think about what you asked for a minite "What if Torch never happened and the allies landed in France in '43" ...... really?... Just HOW do I design battle locations for that and not generated a hundred emails from people telling me to read a history book ??

I'll tell you what...I'll provide the game and the Icons and the OOB's and you can build scenarios for what-if's like that. If you choose Japan vs Vichy you will be given something reasonably appropriate for the time period and if we can we will provide something totally appropriate. If you want to "what - if " something like Hungary vs Vichy France you'll be given a general map .

Don

[BaronvonBeer]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you guys already give us the option to do just what narwan says? Before a campaign battle, can generate a new map with current location, with new (correct for matchup) location, or manualy enter a location "code". Couldn't you just enter a code in for the regiou you want to "what if"?

[narwan]

BaronvonBeer said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you guys already give us the option to do just what narwan says? Before a campaign battle, can generate a new map with current location, with new (correct for matchup) location, or manualy enter a location "code". Couldn't you just enter a code in for the regiou you want to "what if"?

That's what I was thinking of. Have codes in there to reflect the terrains of the different Vichy (and free french) territories (and a list somewhere to show you which is which). All you do is type the code of the location you want and voila, the right terrain. Doesn't seem to hard to me.
The 'create a scenario' solution isn't really a solution at all. There's little point in playing a PBEM game with a scenario I just created myself (including buying both forces and deploying them) now is there? Sort of takes the thrill and mystery out of it.
I play almost exclusively PBEM (beating the AI is far too easy for me) and for WW2 I like to play either 'historical' set-ups or realistic what-ifs. Vichy france allows for a lot of realistic what-ifs.

[DRG]

All true. This is actually something I had considered for the future anyway. We were too busy with other things when I first considered it and who knows... if might make it into the next version, or not, depending on what else we have to do HOWEVER. It is dead simple to create a map now and it's dead simple to load it at the start of the game. You want to "what-if-Vichy-vs-GB in Morroco in 1942"?? ALL you have to do now is either select a pre-existing desert map or spend about 2 minutes loading up two nations that actually fought in the desert and generate some maps until you find one that appeals to you then save it and start your Vichy game and load that map. That still means you can have your game with all the "thrill and mystery" you want. The tools are there now to do what you want. I understand wanting more tools and easier tools but the game can give you what you are looking for if you take a couple of extra steps

Don

[narwan]

That would be true if the battles in north africa against the vichy french were really 'desert' battles. Which they mostly were not. There is a huge difference between the western desert and French north africa, particularly the area's of actual fighting (lot's of it in urbanised and rough and/or wooded area's). You know what one of the main reasons for the delayed advance into Tunisia was after the landings in Algeria? Mud. Hard to get that when you put GB vs GE in the map generator in end '42.

I've tried those extra steps and all they do is give you a map that is less unrealistic than mainland france but still short of suitable. Now off course I could go and make my own map but I don't like making maps, mostly because I'm not good at it, and even if I were to, I don't like playing on a map I know intimately. Again, takes an important part of fun out of it.

I understand that the Vichy OB will likely be limited to the actual historical dates of the existence of Vichy France, so no 'what-ifs' outside that (short of designing them specifically). But I'm still having a hard time seeing the problem about having the option to type '36' and get a map for new Caledonia, or '29' and get Syria, etc, when you've selected Vichy France as one of the combatants. Not having the ability to get suitable maps readily, like for other nations, for the different parts of Vichy France seems to me to undermine at least part of having the OB at all...

[DRG]

This IS going to drag on and on isn't it?
The controls are there in the map generator that will buid a map suitable to your needs all you need to do is learn how to use it. That takes paractice but once it's learned you can generate a map that is suitable in a few minutes and does not have to be "a map I know intimately."
I'm just starting to regret mentioning this....

Don

[DRG]

Gentlemen

I need to know if anyone knows of a website that has a good, readable streat map of Warsaw circa August 1 1944.

EDITED

I'm looking for something better than the one found at
http://www.gideon1.net/uprising/waw1944.jpg

Don

[Weeble]

Try these, in combination:

Warsaw 1938:

http://www.biega.com/blwwa38.html

Warsaw Ghetto

http://www.biega.com/ghettoma.jpg

And:

http://www.princeton.edu/~poland/uprising/Aug5.jpg

[DRG]

Excellent start. Thank you.

Don