map gen codes help

[carp]

Is there a complete guide for modifying the number codes in the map generator in Battles? I know how to modify the numbers but I can't seem to detect the number pattern from one feature to another. Like I know raising the road number raises the probability of a type of road but raising streams by the same number gives a different result.

How can I get MORE roads? The urban code has me stumped too. Either I get one rectangle of urban, or half a map. I know I can use decimals but I just can't get a grip on the consistent method of changing the numbers from terrain-tpe to terrain-type.

danke,
carp

[Mobhack]

when in the Mapgen, press the help button. This should open at the mapgen help page but does not (bug).

Now press the Mapgen Help button, to get to the page that should have been opened. The details are in that help page.

Cheers
Andy

[Mobhack]

Actually - not enough caffeine yet today moment.

I had not gone into the random map editor - that has a help button of its own which does bring the correct help screen up.

Cheers
Andy

[DRG]

carp said:
Is there a complete guide for modifying the number codes in the map generator in Battles? I know how to modify the numbers but I can't seem to detect the number pattern from one feature to another. Like I know raising the road number raises the probability of a type of road but raising streams by the same number gives a different result.

Experimentation is the key. The more you play with it the more you learn about it but it's designed to throw variables in otherwise every map with the same numbers would produce the same map. Right now it's a safe bet it's impossible to generate the same map twice which was our intent but that does mean it's a bit tricky to learn

As Andy noted there is a separate MapGen help file in game that will tell you how the numbers affect the road net but it's also in the GG as well under "Map Generator"

0 - No roads or buildings (possible small village).
1 - Single earth road, some buildings.
2 - Several earth roads, more buildings.
3 - One paved left-Right road, and secondary Earth roads.
4 - Produces more villages especially at road crossings.
5 - Produces a town placed on the Left-Right Paved Road. A town is a few small city grids.
6 - City.
9 - City starts to use more Government type Buildings.

Steams don't use the same code that roads use so you'll never get the same result and that code is tied to marshes so the bigger the number the bigger the marsh. ALSO the overall terrain type affects this. Streams are not common in deserts and therefore the "desert" overrides the stream numbers in some cases and that is determined by the two opponents you have set up Saudi Arabia vs Iraq with a "5" stream entered will give very different results if you had set up Sweden vs Finland. You might click the map gen 5 or 6 times before you see a stream when Saudi Arabia vs Iraq is selected. I just ran a quick test and Sweden vs Finland gave steams 70% of the time with a 5 and Saudi Arabia vs Iraq gave it 10%. It's not a bug. It's the way the game was designed so that people don't see the same maps over and over and you don't get swamps and streams in an arid/desert environment.
Also....... the map generator was made to allow players the ability to produce a good map fast . It's NOT designed to be better than a hand made map although for non historical maps for just about every terrain EXCEPT cities it's pretty close and I know that in many cases now scenario maps start off in the Map Generator then are altered to suit the scenario so if you want more of something save the map and add them by hand

How can I get MORE roads? The urban code has me stumped too. Either I get one rectangle of urban, or half a map. I know I can use decimals but I just can't get a grip on the consistent method of changing the numbers from terrain-type to terrain-type.

danke,
carp

There's isn't a " consistent method of changing the numbers from terrain-type to terrain-type." and that's why you'll never figure one out. Each terrain was deliberately set up differently. We can give you guidelines to follow but playing with the thing is the best teacher just don't expect that putting in 5 gives you the same amount of change for each terrain group. Generally speaking you won't get more than 2 dirt and 2 paved roads UNLESS you save the map and edit in more with the scenario map editor. A "4" for the road net gives you 2+2 roads plus little villages and is one of the more useful numbers to use for generated maps. A 3 usually gives two dirt and one paved. A 2 usually gives 2 dirt roads but a 5 doesn't give any more roads it just gives you bigger towns ( or a little tiny square city ). 6 gives you a generally random sized small city and 7 makes it a bit bigger and a bit more densely populated but cities are still best made by hand

Don

[DRG]

Further to that the "field" numbers and the "Grass Level" numbers are linked and allow you to enter some wild numbers to get interesting maps

Don

[carp]

Thanks, Andy, Don. I had found the map gen help but didn't understand the part about how one number might overrule another. This makes it much clearer why I'm getting the results I get.

I love making maps as I was a property-plat map-maker/cartographer once right after discharge and a surveyor party chief before I joined the service. I think this version and the old v3 version map generator is one of the best features of the game. The generator makes a good base map and I do save them to work them up for tons more detail. I was just looking for a few shortcuts. ;-)

I haven't mastered the urban fill feature yet to get realistic outcomes, nor the best road situations. The one thing for your programmers to be proud of is this most recent version have by far the best water features yet--water flows downhill and through valleys.

Thanks for the quick response. I have several maps I can post but I've never got my zip stuff to work.


carp

[DRG]

carp said:
I haven't mastered the urban fill feature yet to get realistic outcomes, nor the best road situations. The one thing for your programmers to be proud of is this most recent version have by far the best water features yet--water flows downhill and through valleys.

carp

Attached you will find an example of a quick way to build a decent looking small city in a hurry. This *was* built quickly. It took me about 10 minutes to do the entire example but the basics are there and if a bit more time is taken you can create an interesting town quickly. Start with the city center then build the spokes of the wheel then fill in the spokes and add a few specialty buildings then flood fill from the center with stone buildings and you'll have a town in no time. It's not "historical" but if you need to make something for a PBEM it's quick and interesting

Don

[carp]

That's a pretty map. And it looks like there will be lots of ways to play on it.

danke,

carp

[Marek_Tucan]

At the map gen issue, I have to say just "Good work". I remember some time ago, IIRC with the last version of DOS SPMBT, I was creating a real-life map of the military training area Libava with quite deep canyon f a small river and then I played one battle against the AI an the terrain was almost as good as that RL map;o)

[carp]

My absolute bad on the map you sent me, Doug. I was looking at the wrong map because I seem to have developed a weird machine hiccup.

I have two hard drives with WinXP on one and WIN 98.2 on the other from the days of WinME when I needed a stable system for SP. I loaded WINSPMBT on both systems, but rarely play on the W98 drive because XP is so stable. When I copied your map to my D: drive (the XP drive) and opened map 217 I got the fully finished 217 that comes with the game witht he city in the center and didn't realize this was the old map. I thought this was the one you sent me. What has happened is somehow my D: drive, XP version is grabbing maps out of the C: drive files. I found this out by putting the map you posted in the C: drive game and opened it there and got a totally different, smaller map. Now when I open map 217 from the D: drive I get the one you sent and not the one that came with the game.


Anyways, simplified, my problem seems to be what I save when I play the D: drive game is somehow saved to the C: drive. Is there a pathway I could have corrupted?


carp