Suggestions for more informative messages

[JaydedOne]

It -is- a bit of a pain to run around to other boards, trumpeting how mature and intelligent our board is, and then come back to find three or four different threads where the level of discourse has, shall we say, become sub-par for what we're used to around here.

The internet is not a great medium for conversation. Subtext gets lost. Misunderstandings are common, even moreso than in day-to-day conversation where it's frequent to say the least. While not everyone can or will get along, it's not too difficult to remain civil and agree to disagree without resorting to name-calling or unnecessary aggravation.

Relax. It's just a game. Discussing it should maintain some of that in perspective. If we didn't have each other, who would we talk to about Dominions?

[Stryke11]

I'm sorry for my contribution to the lowering of the discourse. I certainly didn't intend my first post to be anything but a vote for more info and my opinion. I didn't mean to demean anyone's position above and beyond disagreeing with it and I certainly don't feel my opinion is any more relevant (even less so compared to some of the folks on here with thousands of posts) than anyone else's. I wasn't thrilled by the personal attack on me in response to my post, but I understand how he took the intent of my post to be an attack on his beliefs (which it wasn't, and I'm sorry).

I agree with the new semi-consensus that more info when you click the headline would be great, for numerous types of messages, and one more I thought of, sorry if it was mentioned before, is to actually state what site was found when a site is found. For suspense purposes, if you don't want to click on the headline you can watch the battles first or do what you would like.

[Graeme Dice]

Talleyrand said:
Leif, given that this is the way they've decided to design the game for every iteration of Dominions, I think my position is probably more concrete than yours in regard to Illwinter's thinking.

I'm glad that you've got a direct mental link to their brains and can determine exactly how they want the game to be. Back in the real world, we'd like to see things that need to be fixed, get fixed.

I'm supporting a compromise between the two different groups: those who enjoy the suspense, and those wanting more information in a more timely manner.

The nature of a compromise is that it leaves everybody unhappy with the result. Now, we can either please the tiny minority of people that like to be confused by their games, or we can please the majority of people who would rather their game not hide information from them.

If clicking on a message and reading information is still too slow for you and Stryke then perhaps you need to be playing another game.

I'm going to suggest that you go back and re-read my suggestion for what information should be presented, and my suggestion that people who are worried about losing "suspense" should simply not click on the message, since they apparently don't want to know a battle's result before the battle has finished.

[Graeme Dice]

Chazar said:
Besides I think that suspense is also a reason why the message window opens first, so you do not see the map and hence do not know immediately which provinces were won and which ones were lost unless you click on the battle summaries or dissmiss the message window...

No, the reason the message window opens first is because that's standard behaviour for a message log. It contains the most important information needed to complete your next turn.

[Foodstamp]

If you can't take a little discourse, the internet is not the place to hang out! Give billions of nerds access to a medium that allows them to sling mud and throw a tantrum without getting punched in the face, and your gonna have millions upon millions of people QQ and angry.

Folks... Body language, spacing between individuals, eye contact or lack of, tone of voice, facing someone squarely... These things have more to do with conveying messages than the actual symbols (words) we use to tell a story or convey ideas.

On the internet we lose 90% of our ability to communicate because it is just written text. Try to think the best of what people are typing to you, because trust me, your going to run into someone eventually on the internet that is trying to get one over on ya!

That definetly did not happen in this thread.

As far as changing the messages, I still think it would be better as a player modded ability that we can toggle on and off.

Alot of people play this game like a database, wanting all the information presented in front of them so they can make their next move, just like chess. These people rule from a general's point of view.

Other people try to get absorbed into the game, they "care" about their prophet or that poor brave commander that fought so bravely all these years and now has several afflictions. These are the people I think suspenseful messaging would appeal too.

[Talleyrand]

Graeme Dice said:

I'm glad that you've got a direct mental link to their brains and can determine exactly how they want the game to be. Back in the real world, we'd like to see things that need to be fixed, get fixed.

Stating something needs to be fixed implies that it is broken. If Illwinter thought the current system were broken, don't you think they would have "fixed" it by now? I don't have a direct link to their brains but I do have a little bit of common sense. Perhaps you should try exercising yours before you post something else.

The nature of a compromise is that it leaves everybody unhappy with the result.

Here's some advice: Don't bother applying for a position as ambassador for your country because you have very little knowledge about how negotiations work.

[JaydedOne]

Yet another good thread with a good initial idea headed for Locksville.

Is there something in the water this month?

[Leif_-]

Talleyrand said:
Stating something needs to be fixed implies that it is broken. If Illwinter thought the current system were broken, don't you think they would have "fixed" it by now?

Not necessarily. Illwinter is a "garage operation" and they've always had a tendency to work more on what they find interesting than on what's broken (which seems a pretty sensible approach for this type of game, really.) So that they haven't "fixed" something can mean that they don't think it's a problem, that they don't think it's important, that they've prioritised other stuff, that the code they'd have to change is particularly ugly and double-plus-un-fun or that they've been distracted with shinier, more rewarding aspects of making the game.

Besides, this is really a UI issue, and Illwinter's attention to those have always been a little haphazard.

[Graeme Dice]

Talleyrand said:
Stating something needs to be fixed implies that it is broken. If Illwinter thought the current system were broken, don't you think they would have "fixed" it by now? I don't have a direct link to their brains but I do have a little bit of common sense.

Unless you are going to argue that Illwinter believes their game is perfect, then you have no idea whether they want the messages to behave in a certain way. However, even if they do want the messages to be uninformative, which is unlikely, it's the player's job to inform the developers of what changes are necessary.

Here's some advice: Don't bother applying for a position as ambassador for your country because you have very little knowledge about how negotiations work.

Could we avoid silly analogies about international politics? Illwinter can either keep the messages as uninformative as they currently are, or they can listen to the dozens of people who have asked over the past several years for improved information to be presented in the message summary. The first case is supported by a few people who feel that strategy games present too much information and would rather be playing a RPG. The second case has been asked for constantly since Dominions I was released.

[thejeff]

I don't think anyone doesn't want more information available.

There seems to be a consensus on more info in the battle summary screens. Is anybody actually upset that the main message page doesn't tell you who won the battle?

The debate is getting heated and the actual positions are inches apart.