Will Vanheim Ever Become Spayed? - Page 9

HoneyBadger · #81 December 12th, 2006, 05:16 AM

I'm still testing, not really ready to multiplayer yet, simply because I've only been playing a couple of months so far. A decent player with a lot of experience could probably beat me using any nation and it wouldn't prove a thing.

One of the really nasty advantages Atlantis has over Helheim though, on a small map, say 60 provinces with 15 water, is the ability to locate and take out Helheim's home province. Once you've done that and destroyed their fortress, you've wiped out the whole W9/F9 question for as long as you can hold on to that province, which a decent player should be able to do for quite some time, since there's no way that Helheim minus their home province is going to be able to cut off Atlantis's troop line.

HoneyBadger · #82 December 12th, 2006, 05:24 AM

I've changed my mind about Atlantis pretender though, imprisoned Wyrm isn't that useful. Against Helheim I definitely think I'm better off with a master lich.

HoneyBadger · #83 December 12th, 2006, 06:06 AM

You know, this whole question really points to how limited the bless strategies are.

Huzurdaddi · #84 December 12th, 2006, 06:13 AM

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HoneyBadger said:
You know, this whole question really points to how limited the bless strategies are.

Limited did you mean LIMITING as in they are limiting in the choices you have when you are setting up your game. If you meant the latter than I agree, to maximize your chances in a decent game you have to figure out your bless strategy.

HoneyBadger · #85 December 12th, 2006, 06:17 AM

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Not only are you limited to 8 types of blessing, they're fairly arbitrary. You couldn't for instance begin the game with frost weapons with a water bless and improved perception with an astral bless, or bonus Hp with a nature bless. There's no real reason that something along those lines couldn't have been balanced into the game. I'm really hoping-and I've made some effort to convince others of the desireability-that we'll either see a (preferrably much) broader magic system soon or be able to mod in additional magic paths with their own types of bless.

HoneyBadger · #86 December 12th, 2006, 06:42 AM

Ok, I've had enough for today.

The results of today are: Helheim 1, Atlantis 0.

I'll try to get through another round of testing tomorrow.

PDF · #87 December 12th, 2006, 07:05 AM

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Graeme Dice said:

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HoneyBadger said:
Their blessed sacreds are very powerful, it's true, but with W9/F9 you know you're not going to face a Dom10 pretender, Dom is going to be around 4 at most, which means not too many sacred troops coming out at a time, and roughly half of those should be valkyries, because they're so useful, and valkyries aren't as tough as Hangedrott calvalry.

F9W9 Father of winters with order 3, sloth 3, cold 1, death 3, misfortune 3, drain 1 and dominion 9. It uses the scales that can be set negative with no real ill effects.

Why Drain-1 ? You should take Drain-2 with no additional ill effects !

PDF · #88 December 12th, 2006, 07:16 AM

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Aseth said:
ok, stupid iron numbers:
early era

Van - 25 sacred vans with w9f9 bless,5 sacred van comanders(1 of them prophet),dominion 5, 3 order -3res 2drain 3 misfortune

C`Tis - 4 sauromancers, 1 Lizard King (Prophet),120 HI,3 lvl enchant reserched, dominion 5, 3 order, 3res, 3grows, 2 hot, 1 magic, 3 misfortune

C`Tis lose 20 battles from 20... sad

BUT now some MEGA-MAGIC-STRATEGIC-HINT, change 120 HI for
50Elite Warriors & 80 Slave Warriors(yep, i have so much money for them because of GOOD scales)

C`Tis win 20 battles from 20... hmmmm... what is wrong... Ou! Bingo! HI usless against so-heavy-hitting & hi-def troops, but little Slave-Lizards kick them... It`s miracle my friends!

(all Slave-Lizards die)

next, change 80 Slave Warriors to 20 Chariots
C`Tis win 20 battles from 20... and even some troops exept Sauromancers survive!

What blessings did have Vanheim ? It all hangs up on that, Vans aren't very money-effective without bless , and the Ctis units you've used aren't sacred...

Aseth · #89 December 12th, 2006, 07:19 AM

Van - w9+f9 bless
C`Tis - god with w9 bless for test Ctis Sacred Dancers (all Dancers died in tests don`t even scratch Vans,so i didn`t post these tests), but Slaves & Chariots not sacred.

Edi · #90 December 12th, 2006, 09:40 AM

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NTJedi said:
Yeah lets stomp and pound the newbie player by turn_12 in the blitz game... oh gosh... he never returned... wonder WHY !!

Anyone entering Dom3 MP games expecting anything else at the beginning is obviously too naive for his own good. Doesn't mean that a more experienced player necessarily needs to go full throttle at them, but if it happens, it happens. If you're trying to twist my words around as if I advocated piling on newbies, you can go play with yourself.

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NTJedi said:
Based on the type of games available, the type of players in the game and the time available for the newbie player... gamers must choose what works for them.
And even if they do move into a game for newbies, there's no stopping an experienced player from logging in unrecognized and dominating.

Then that would suggest the problem being with the experienced player being something of an arsehole rather than there bring a problem with the concept of a newbie game, wouldn't it?

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NTJedi said:

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Edi said:
My first MP was against a fairly experienced bunch of people and I actually managed to finish fourth out of eight, but that was due to a lot of things, luck as well. My second, I got stomped.

Not everyone has your personality, thus many gamers new to multiplayer gaming will only stomach getting stomped a few times before just flat out quitting. The powerful nations provide the newbie a stronger sense of security when moving into the multiplayer arena.

The harsh fact is that for most people, winning a Dominions game is a fairly rare treat unless they take part in a crapload of games. Powerful nation or not, a newbie is going to get a drubbing when he moves into a game with experienced people. The only question is how bad, and that depends on quite a few things. But that does not address the issue of an obvious balance problem in any way, shape or form.

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NTJedi said:
There's LOTS of nations for every age and more coming... there's no reason for the game not to have a few very powerful nations which provide more variety into the game. If you want something completely balanced all the way around go play rock, paper, scissors.

Take your sanctimonious attitude and shove it up your arse. I've never demanded complete balance for any Dominions game and I don't appreciate you trying to put words into my mouth. There is a difference between "powerful" and "ridiculously lopsided", which is what Huzurdadi, Graeme and I have been saying here.

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NTJedi said:
If the developers wanted something completely balanced they would not have Vanheim and Helium designed the way they do now. You don't like it... then go develop a mod.

What I said about your attitude still applies here. Only you should do it with a cattle prod. In case you didn't happen to read the latest interview posted, the developers add new nations based on gut feeling and what feels thematically correct without worrying about balance. Occasionally that results in something that needs to be toned down and the Vanheim and Helheim issue is one of those.

As far as developing a mod or providing other content for the community goes, I've done a ****load more than you've ever dreamed of doing and I've no problem claiming that I've got a better understanding of Dominions as a whole than you do.

Now if you would care to actually address the points raised instead of whining like whipped dog, be my guest, but otherwise you can sod off.

Edi