Another problem with retreating from combat

[Slick]

A player can bypass warp point defense if his ships are fast enough. An attacker coming thru a warp point who retreats, goes to another sector in the target system. Use of fast ships with a scaredy-cat strategy can nerf warp point defenses. I think this is a game-breaker.

Shouldn't an attacker who retreats, coming thru a warp point, be forced back to the other side of the warp point in all cases?

[Suicide Junkie]

I still want the option of SE4 style Steel Cage Combat.

If you want to retreat, you should have to stick it out until the time runs down. Then move on.
None of this wussy running away for GGmod... Manly, stand up slugging matches I say!

The worst part of retreating is that you just keep retreating. Equal speed ships can't catch you, and you can retreat all the way to the enemy homeworld then attack.

[Tim_Ward]

I don't see the problem.

Fast ships can get away from warp point defences if they can survive long enough to get out of weapons range.

[Slick]

I have to agree. Given the game constraints, I just can't see a workable retreat model. You can even retreat with slower ships if the spacing is right.


I just inadvertently "helped" an enemy colony ship halfway across the map towards its destination by giving my attack fleet an order to attack another enemy fleet. The colony ship was in the way and there were several battles during which he retreated to the next sector my fleet was going to move into.

[Spectarofdeath]

Wouldnt mines solves this problem? And mines in adjacent sectors?

[Slick]

I can't see how. If you are going to exploit this to bypass warp point defenses, you surely will already have enough minesweeping capabilities in your fleet to handle mines at the warp point. So your fleet would just sweep mines encountered anywhere.

[Captain Kwok]

Slick said:
A player can bypass warp point defense if his ships are fast enough. An attacker coming thru a warp point who retreats, goes to another sector in the target system. Use of fast ships with a scaredy-cat strategy can nerf warp point defenses. I think this is a game-breaker.

Shouldn't an attacker who retreats, coming thru a warp point, be forced back to the other side of the warp point in all cases?

I don't see why they should be forced back through the warp point. If they are lucky enough to get through the defenses of the defending player, then good for them - it's a logical result. Assuming suitable warp point defenses it's not like they will be escaping unscathed, particularly if they are carrying any sorts of non-combat supports ships needed to support a sustained attack.

[Suicide Junkie]

It is not the faster ships that are the problem. They've got a legitimate tech advantage, or possibly less guns and armor in order to fit more engines (QNP).

It is the ships of the same speed that can escape forever.
Which means you need to sacrifice guns/armor to catch them, and which then means you have a big disadvantage in the fighting.

[Spectarofdeath]

What about engine damaging weapons? Or Tractor beams? As far as a fleet goes, if your equipping a entire fleet just to make it past a wp defense, then your going to be way outgunned and if we're talking a fleet, starbases, mines, sats and all that good stuff for a Wp defense force I don't see how your just going to enter the sector and zoom to a retreat without taking some heavy casualties. Plus, if you have this much of a speed advantage, and your talking about playing against a human, they should notice that your bldg your ships with speed and mind and plan accordingly, say several hunter-killer fleets with their own extremly fast ships to catch any breakthrough attempt. If we're talking about the AI....the AI sucks anyway and wouldn't know if you were above it's homeworld bombarding it to oblivion.

Edit: And about the ships being the same speed, I think if my colony ship has the same amount of speed as your frigate then yeah, it should be able to retreat, not just get stuck moving around the edges of the map waiting for the intercept. Thats the price you pay for not researching better engines or for putting that extra DUC on.

[Suicide Junkie]

The problem with weapons is that you have to get in range to use them.

Yes, an invasion force will lose a few ships at a warppoint, but the rest are free to roam and retreat everywhere else in deep space.
Posting a satellite in every hex to prevent retreats and replacing them every time a ship flies past is not fun.

And my point is that, as is, they do not have to be designed to run the defenses. Equal speed ships... in fact identical warships to yours can escape with minor losses.
You can never catch up to them, so if you use max range strategy you kill at most one ship during the chase to infinity phase. Point blank attempts depend on your starting position, but they are firing back at you with just as much firepower as you are at them, so any of your ships in range get shot down, and maybe you can take some with you.
Suckage ensues.