Mindless Commanders?

Beasley · #1 April 1st, 2007, 05:48 PM

I noticed the write-up on mound kings shows them as mindless. Does this mean they're immune to mind hunt, enslave mind, soul slay (what's to slay?), charm, hellbind heart, and anything else affecting the mind? If so, does anyone have a complete list of spells that mindless commanders are immune to? They seem like a great asset if you're going up a mind hunt happy opponent. Any drawbacks besides low commandable units?

Taqwus · #2 April 1st, 2007, 08:27 PM

They're not -- at least the foot versions are, judging from a quick check.

Off-hand, memory tells me that every unit that actually comes as a commander also has a mind. To get a mindless commander, you have to Gift of Reason a mindless unit.

:edit:
To clarify, "they're not" refers to Mound Kings not being mindless, not the immunities suggested.

If you DID have a mindless commander, you do gain immunity to certain types of magic and attacks (notably R'lyeh's mindblasts). Main drawback might be that it's not supposed to run away, IIRC -- double-edged sword, that.

DrPraetorious · #3 April 2nd, 2007, 12:10 AM

The Golem is a mindless *character*. Has no command ability, not sure if that's what you meant.

You can also get mindless commanders by casting "Life After Death" - commanders who die retain their command status.

Nick_K · #4 April 2nd, 2007, 06:11 AM

Shouldn't 'gift of reason' remove the mindless tag? It seems a little strange otherwise.
"Now, by the power of my magics, I grant you.... reason!!"
"But doctor... the creature.. it... it has no mind!"
"Then we shall make it... Prime Minister! Muahahahaha!"

RonD · #5 April 2nd, 2007, 08:00 AM

A golem with a Crown of Command is a true mindless commander.

DrPraetorious · #6 April 2nd, 2007, 11:14 AM

Mindless isn't actually a tag - any unit with a morale of 50 is mindless.

Personally, given that mindless undead are still capable of function in some capacity, the existence of mindless commanders - which have no mind just the ability to relay their orders - doesn't bother me.

Nick_K · #7 April 2nd, 2007, 01:19 PM

Ah, but does 'relaying orders' really count as 'reason'? The existence of mindless commanders is fine with me, but I think gift of reason should remove the ability. It's true that I don't know what should be done with morale in that case.... anyway, it's not an issue that arises often enough to be worth much programmer time

Ygorl · #8 April 2nd, 2007, 01:29 PM

"Reason: the power of the mind to think, understand, and form judgments by a process of logic" - this is getting a bit philosophical, perhaps, but could such power arise without a mind? Maybe from a really powerful computer, say? I can certainly imagine such a device evaluating a battlefield and issuing orders; at what point does that become thinking? Does that mean it has a mind? I think, anyway, that there's enough philosophical gray area that one can reasonably imagine a construct reasoning without having a conventionally-understood mind (that would be subject to twisting, damaging, corrupting...)

NTJedi · #9 April 2nd, 2007, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Nick_K said:
Ah, but does 'relaying orders' really count as 'reason'?

No... another example would be a robot following a script of commands. The robot can be given thousands and thousands of commands which could take years to complete, but it would also lack reason the same as a mindless commander.

Tichy · #10 April 2nd, 2007, 06:20 PM

And then there's this oddity. Mindless commanders can go insane.
Give a golem one of those unique astral staff things and see.